HI--I WANT MY NAME TAKEN OFF THE CHURCH ROLLS--HAVE BEEN A CHRISTIAN FOR 25 YEARS--AFTER READING "LEAVING THE SAINTS" BY MARTHA BECK, I WANT IT OFF--BUT HOW TO DO IT? PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
[Sandra's Note: Thanks for the note. Here are a couple of sites dealing with the Mormons in Missouri.
I noticed that all the web sites trying to steal your name are gone ... very cool. I pray that God continues to provide — you guys provide a very essential need in SLC....
[Web-editor: See #104 Messenger: Ministry Files Lawsuit.]
In your current issue of the messenger [#104 Messenger], you state that the endowment and washings and anointings is required of missionaries. At the time of my mission a decade ago, I remember it to be common practice, but not a requirement, for a missionary to go through the temple.
[Sandra's Note: If you go to http://www.ldsces.org/manual_index.asp, then click on Religion 130: Missionary Preparation Student Manual, then read chapter 2, it looks like they are saying a missionary goes through the temple. I have never heard of a full-time missionary, as opposed to a stake missionary, who didn't go through the endowment ritual.]
The key is temple worthiness, not actually going through the endowment. Though most will go through the endowment, I have known missionaries from my own mission (10 years ago), who for what ever circumstance, did not go through the washing and anointings or endowment, but then went upon their return, and in one case while on his mission. This is especially demonstrated with sister missionaries.
Dear Editor, I happened upon one of your web sites, wherein you refer to an article in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol 29, Number 3, Fall 1966. I am very interested in obtaining this issue as it contains an article regarding my maternal grandfather, Gisbert L. Bossard. I guess he caused quite a scandal with his photographs of inside the Temple. Yikes! I was born in Salt Lake City and was baptized into the Mormon Church in 1948. However, I met Jesus in 1982 and am now "born-again". I would appreciate any help you can give me in obtaining this issue.
Thank you so much,
[Sandra's Note: Sorry, don't know that issue of Dialogue is still available. But here is a link to the article—
You could contact used bookstores here in SLC for a copy.
[Steve's Note: Examining the teachings of the LDS Church (or any other faith) does not automatically mean that contention is caused by this. Otherwise, one might have to consider that when Jesus publicly challenged the teachings of the Pharisees and the Sadducees that he was guilty of causing contention. (See Matt. 22-23)
Additionally, Mormons would have to admit that by the sending out of their missionaries that they would similarly be the cause of contention between themselves and others. We believe that the teachings and beliefs of all should be tested and evaluated to see if it can stand. Like Jesus, we must not allow ourselves to be prevented from lovingly speaking the truth by others who may or may not agree with us.]
Oh, I think very much that you cause contention with your books against the church. You can not compare this to Jesus Christ. He did only on rare occasion talk about the Pharisees. Most of his teaching was the good news. Jesus Christ said that Missionaries have to preach the Gospel. So I don't see any contention in that. So that doesn't make sense at all. We do what the Lord commands.
What does it mean, that the teaching and beliefs should be tested to see if it can stand. Jesus Christ never did this. And you deffently don't speak lovingly about the Mormon Church. You can't be serious, pardon me. On your site I only saw information against the Mormon Church. How come? My point is that it is not a Christlike attitude to speak badly against any church. As I said, Jesus never took His precious time for this. . . .
I have been on the lookout for this book for a while and I thought you might be able to help me locate one. I am very interested in apologetics and feel it is always better to have evidence in hand when I am telling someone that the founder of their church is a false prophet (though I am not that direct since I want them to listen to me). As I understand it Joseph Smith made some rather embarrassing prophices that the church later took out.
Any help you can give me would be helpful.
For a list of some of Smith's false prophesies, see our page—A Sample of Joseph Smith's False Prophecies.]
It would also be rather stupid not to assume that all Mormons know the story of Joseph Smith. My question is if all Mormons know this story, where does your faith come from?
Science has prooven beyond reasonable doubt that Humans evlolved in Africa.....not Missouri (or anywhere on the North American continent for that matter) and im pretty certain the Native Americans did not come from Jeruselum!It seems to me like this Joseph Smith bloke made up a bunch of stories and placed the good 'ol US of A at the center of it all (big suprise there)
I dont mean to sound insulting, and I belive all people have the right to belive in anything they want, but how could any logical intelligent human being know these stories and still belive them to be true? Am I missing something here?
[Sandra's Note: Judging from my experience, I'd say most Mormons know very little about their church history or doctrine. For instance, most have never read the Doctrine and Covenants or Pearl of Great Price (their other books of scripture). In fact, I would wager that most have never read any of Joseph Smith's sermons. They are usually converted on the basis of friendship and the LDS emphasis on families and wholesome living. LDS historians that know the unedited story of the rise of Mormonism seem to excuse problems as being just examples of human weakness, not deceit. But if the Book of Mormon is not history then it is Smith's invention, which adds up to deceit in my book.]
I respect your religion, and I have been taught to respect ALL religions. Never ONCE have I gone to church and heard someone preach against the beliefs of others. I would be appalled. Our Elder Brother Jesus Christ only taught tolerance and love. I feel that preaching against other religions (even when disguising it as "educational material") is done in the spirit of contention, and should not even leave the lips of a self-proclaimed Christian.
But my question still is: WHY IS IT NECESSARY TO PREACH AGAINST OTHER RELIGIONS? It bears the qualities of a grade school bully. You must feel like you have to cut other religions down to make yours look better. Or could it be that you feel unsure about your own beliefs? Wouldn't it be more Christ-like if you spent your time and energy studying your OWN religion, bettering yourself, and being of service to and loving mankind? Isn't that what it's all about anyway? You have to ask yourself: WWJD?
[Sandra's Note: You seem to be overlooking the fact that the LDS faith was established on the very specific and offensive (to the Christian community) claim that all other churches were wrong, an abomination to God, etc. Take another look at Joseph Smith's account of his first vision printed at the back of every copy of the Pearl of Great Price.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
Also, prior to 1990, the LDS temple ceremony portrayed ministers as being employees of the devil. 50,000 LDS missionaries go out every year to proclaim that ONLY the LDS Church is true and that LDS baptism is the only one accepted by God. Also that only those married in a Mormon temple will have eternal life (they believe others can go to heaven, but not have eternal life). Don't you realize how offensive this is to Christians? You might want to read these articles.
Since LDS missionaries are traveling throughout the world to get people to leave their churches and join the LDS Church it only seems fair to tell the other side of the story.]
This may be the first of many inquiries, as I have just begun a journey to seek the truth behind Mormonism. I am trying to locate several references that I see mentioned on many web sites. I have so many questions... my first primary concern is:
Can I trust the validity or correctness of today's printings of certain important references such as the Journal of discourses?....the Joseph Smith History...or what about the 1980 reprint of the 1830 BofM? ...have all of these things been "altered".......can authentic material be located somewhere for public viewing?
I am trying to build up the courage to show my wife the things that I have discovered and I am hoping to find enough solid material to at least plant the seed of doubt...that which will allow her to question things herself.
Thank you for your time,
[Sandra's Note: All of the books we reference can be seen at the university libraries here in Utah, even BYU. The Journal of Discourses has not been edited. You can access it through the LDS site Gospelink.
Most women have a problem with polygamy and are surprised by the true history of Smith's wives.
Dear Ms. Tanner, Thank you for your thoughtful response. I have begun the (journey into the abyss, as I call it) by taking the steps you;ve suggested. It occurred to me to be wiser than coming home one night and dumping it all in her lap, which was what I was contemplating.
Last weekend while visiting my folks . . . we went to the LDS bookstores there and purchased quite a few. I can see that I have many months of study ahead of me. There are alot of books I want to read, and then compare with others. I will be making use of my Hi-Lite marker. I am reading Mormon Enigma, it is quite revealing. I also purchased the History of the Church by JS period 1. I will need to purchase "In Sacred Loneliness" online....it appears not to be available in any store we looked in....and if it is anything like Mormon Enigma...I can see why.
I have noted a great deal of resources on your web site. I am eager to acquire several items...but it will be a matter of good timing on my part as to when I can bring those resources into our studying.
It is scary to think about having a dialogue with my wife in which questions will be raised about the church....but somewhat of a relief as well....I've wanted to get these things off my shoulder for a long time. When I hand this book over to her, I will ask her to look at the things I've highlighted and help me understand them.
Just yesterday a co-worker whom I have confided in for some time, brought me the latest edition of "The Salt Lake City Messenger" There are several pamphlets listed there that interest me. I may order some of those through him.
I have many questions, but I think with some reasonable effort, I can find answers. It is comforting to know there is a knowledgeable resource of people at the UTLM. (the FAIR message boards are peopled with idiots)
Anyway, Thank you again for your time :)
Its nothing about bad its trying to find something good for me that i can have a new way of living so that i can be helpfull to the community. If you can help me out in it ill be greatfull.
[Steve's Note: I would encourage you to keep on reading about Mormonism and how it is different from historic Christianity. The LDS Church makes claims both about its own history and its doctrinal teachings that do not stand up well to critical examination. For more information about this please read the following fact sheets we have online:
You may also be interested in the website of another ministry like ours that has articles in spanish. It is http://www.irr.org/Irr-spanpage.html
I am glad you want to have a faith that moves you to action to help others around you. This truly is the real heart of the message of Christ. I would encourage you to contact a Christian Church in your area where you can start to use your desire to help others.]
if you say that joseph smith could not have seen god because of the scriptures that you quoted (saying man cannot see god and no man has) then why does Exodus 33:11 read — And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. if i were your friend and i talked to you, i would see you.
[Steve's Note: Exodus 33:11 is a figure of speech which means that Moses spoke directly to God and did not speak to Him via some sort of liaison. Clearly a reading of this text which tries too hard to make God have a physical form would contradict Exodus 33:20 (which is in the immediate contextual setting) and the rest of the message of the Bible.
Numbers 12:8 is another example of figurative language used in the Bible as another way to express direct communication. Obviously, the author did not intend for us to understand God to be speaking with Moses with his mouth literally pressed up against the mouth of Moses.
We must exercise great care when interpreting the Bible that we do not try to understand things literally when they are meant as figures of speech. A good example of this is found in Psalm 91:4 where God is described as having feathers and wings. Clearly, no one believes that God is some sort of Celestial bird. To take any single passage about God, and use it alone to dictate a doctrinal model of God, can result in an erroneous view of God.
For more on this you may be interested in several books we offer:
[Additional note from Sandra: One of the problems for the Mormons in using Ex. 33:11 to prove that God the Father has a body is their claim that the Father is Elohim and that Jesus, a totally separate deity according to them, is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. It was Jehovah that talked to Moses, thus by LDS interpretation, it would have been Jesus and would prove nothing regarding God the Father. Brent Metcalf observed:
Similarly, in the new Encyclopedia of Mormonism David R. Seely writes that "biblical passages indicate that Jesus Christ is Jehovah" and that "latter-day scriptures often refer to Jesus Christ, the Son, as Jehovah (e.g., D&C 110:3-4; Moro. 10:34)." He and Rhodes both use 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 as evidence that ancients also knew that Jesus was Jehovah (1992, 2:720-21).
Yet there is no evidence in the Old or New Testament that this doctrine was taught anciently. The use of the divine names Jehovah and Elohim in the Old Testament never supports the twentieth-century Mormon doctrine that Elohim is the father of Jehovah, that Jehovah, not Elohim, is the God of the Old Testament, or that Jehovah is Jesus Christ. Rather than being "occasionally ambiguous" in the Bible, as Seely claims, the divine names Elohim and Jehovah are both used unambiguously to refer to the same divine being, the one god of the Old Testament. (New Approaches to the Book of Mormon, Brent Metcalfe, Signature, p.109)
I would also suggest reading the following for a fuller understanding of the Christian concept of God as opposed to the LDS view.
Have a wonderful summer :-)
What gives you the right to bash something unless Jesus himself has come down to this earth and said, "bash these people". I just think if people would stop worrying so much about what other people believed, we would have a lot less problems and hate in our world. It's arrogant people like you that cause wars and strife. Do as Jesus said, love one another.
[Sandra's Note: I think you are overlooking a few passages in the Bible. Jesus warned in Matt 16:12 against "the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees." And then in Matt 7:15 he warned the people about "false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing." Also, Paul, Peter and John all warned about false prophets (see 2 Cor 11:13; Gal. 2:4; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 4:1). Thus we feel it is our duty to warn people against the false teachings of Joseph Smith.
We do not consider printing the other side of an issue as "bashing." Is it "bashing" for someone to warn against smoking? Is it "bashing" if someone exposes fraud? If it is wrong to challenge someone's beliefs, are you equally upset that the LDS Church sends out 50,000 missionaries to persuade people to leave their church, which may alienate their parents and family, to join the LDS Church? Remember, the LDS Church proclaims that it is "the only TRUE church" thus making everyone else's church "false." They are free to make such a claim, but we have the right to challenge it.]
If it is, according to 1 Nephi 14:10, "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the churches of the devil; wherefore who so belongeth not to the church of the lamb of god belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth," the only true church on the face of the earth is funding the church of Satan. This is why members need to see where the heck their money is going.
In His complete sufficiency,
[Sandra's Note: Yes, the LDS Church contributed to the Hindu temple building project. Here are several links to articles about it.
The LDS Church has also donated to the restoration fund for the Catholic Cathedral of the Madeleine here in Salt Lake.
Hello and blessings in Jesus! I have been looking up information on the similarities between Islam and Mormonism. Of course, I am finding many. But one question plagues me and that is: How would Joseph Smith known about Islam and it's origins, teachings, etc?
I guess I would like to know if there's anything concrete to show that Smith knew anything about Islam, like studying it, etc.
Please let me know as soon as you can.
June 13, 2005
I've recently been enjoying your website. I am a formerly faithful Mormon, returned missionary and married in the Salt Lake temple. To make a long story short, I completely lost faith in the LDS church, I told this to my wife and my bishop a year and a half ago, and I still attend the church meetings out of an uneasy compromise with my wife, while the bishop has advised her to leave me if I don't "repent" of my unbelief. (The longer story I wrote up on the exmormon.org bio board ("Bryan", June 7).) . . .
I've also noticed that Mormons are more or less "Hyper-Arminians" much like the Word of Faith movement and that if ever a Mormon agrees with Calvinism, they would be in stark contradiction with many principles of their church's theology. . . .
According to DNA humans date back 150,000 years long before Adam. Most archaeologists that study when America was settled say it was anywhere from 15 to 25,000 years ago (some even say 40,000 years ago), this also pre-dates Adam.
According to DNA studies the Neandertal's were different species than us, that certainly does not sit well with everyone on earth dating back just 6,000 years to Adam (see Murphy's article in "American Apocrypha" on this and other ways in which DNA has helped verify evolution). DNA studies show our close evolutionary relationship to the Chimpanzee using the same methods that show American Indians come from Asia.
Christians are picking and choosing what they will accept from the scientists, as illogical as it is, to further their own agenda's. If its against the Book of Mormon they will accept it, if it is against the Bible they put their heads in the sand even though it is based on the same research. Don't you think by Christians pressing the DNA issue so hard concerning the BOM are just kicking themselves in the butt?
[Sandra's Note: While Christians believe God is the creator of the universe (see Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.), there are various views on how this was accomplished. There are Christians that hold to a Young-Earth model and other Christians believe in an Old-Earth model. The central point is that God created everything. I personally hold to an Old-Earth model so am not troubled by the DNA issue. But my colleagues who hold to a Young-Earth model have their own way of explaining DNA. Here are some links to sites that present one or the other of these viewpoints.
Old-Earth Creation Sites
Young-Earth Creation Sites
Subject: Sad, but part of the process
I just became aware of the sad series of moves your organization [FAIR] recently made against the Utah Lighthouse Ministry. I suppose when it's perceived as a "war for souls", anything becomes justified. It amazes me to see to what extent the ego will go to be "right".
The Mormon Church is just one of several thousand organized religions, each with various levels of fanaticism. Though tolerance and forgiveness is often preached, it seems to be seldom practiced. After all, when you are right, any action is condoned. The problem is, they all assume to be right. "But we're really right" you're likely now saying (trust me, I've been there).
As a former Mormon (yet somehow still considered one of the multi-million strong - as are the dozens of "dissidents" I run with), having served a 2 year LDS mission to Europe, married in the temple (going on 23 years now), 4 kids, and having served callings from Scout leader to Gospel Doctrine Teacher, let me just say this: Through a series of profound spiritual experiences, I've come to realize that all roads take us back to God (yes, even through dogmatic Mormon Doctrine - though that's a long way to go about it).
But, if you, or any of those "defenders of the faith", could even for a moment entertain the thought that there is even the remotest possibility that you've been duped by carefully crafted cons, then a light will begin to grow within you and you will step into a world of spiritual experiences that will eventually make your former recollections with Mormonism seem like a bad pipe dream. (Can you believe they know I feel this way and they still insist on keeping me on "the books"? - and there are so many more of us, just like me, who have had similar break-through awarenessess, and feel similarly - We're all part of the 12 million strong -- oh boy!).
"The Script has been written" (C.I.M. Pp 298). You are providing a valuable assistance in the final wrap up towards what will be a huge shift in consciousness across the globe. It's just in a completely different way than how you're thinking you're doing it.
Any way you slice it, it's an exciting time to be alive. I'd just encourage you to be kinder towards those whom you perceive to be your enemy (for yourself, not for them - they don't need your kindness). We're all one, after all.
Thousands of people have been killed in the name of religion for thousands of years. Preach tolerance and acceptance, if your so happy that you have found your 'truth' and God, then why would you take the time and effort to dispute and argue? please take the time to explain it, i've never seen or heard of "anti" Mormons before... your store is like painting a swastika on a Jewish Synagog./ Its just not as violent. Isn't protesting Mormonism the same as protesting any other religion> shouldnt we all just try to accept and acknowledge that we have different beliefs and get on with it... truely, if you love your family and think that they are good people, then why dont you respect they're beliefs and religion? your organisation must be an embarrassment to them
Alma 7:10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary at JERUSALEM which is the land of our forefathers, . .
Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in BETHLEHEM of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, . .
THE EVENTS OF HIS DEATH Helaman 14:20 . . . behold, in that day that he shall suffer death the sun shall be darkened and refuse to give his light unto you; and also the moon and the stars; and there shall be no light upon the face of this land, even from the time that he shall suffer death, for the space of three days, to the time that he shall rise again from the dead.
Helaman 14:27 And he said unto me that . . . darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for the space of three days.
Luke 23:44-46 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
. . . Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
. . . Paul taught that the gospel was something that you believed, not something that you had to get wet in.
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
THE AUTHORITY OF THE SCRIPTURES:
Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Mormon 9:31-33 - Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father, because of his imperfection, neither them who have written before him; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been. And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech. And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.
1 Nephi 19:6 Nevertheless, I do not write anything upon plates save it be that I think it be sacred. And now, if I do err, even did they err of old; not that I would excuse myself because of other men, but because of the weakness which is in me, according to the flesh, I would excuse myself
HIS FALSE PROPHECIES:
Mormon prophet, Joseph Smith, preached that the MOON was inhabited by people about six feet tall, who dressed like Quakers and lived about 1,000 years. Since he was wrong about the moon, who can trust him about the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, 1892, Vol. 3, pp. 263-264 and Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol. 3, p. 166, typed copy at Utah State Historical Society). Who could prove him wrong? Our astronauts were asked, "Did you see any Quakers up there? " The next "living prophet," Brigham Young, taught the moon and the SUN were inhabited, "No question of it!" (Journal of Dis. Vol. 13, 1880, p. 271).
Joseph Smith prophesied, ". . . I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon -the -Saints 'in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left . . . " (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 182. The date was Feb., 1835,) Was he a true or false prophet?
AND I KEPT THE BEST FOR LAST: Joseph Smith said on February 14, 1835, ". . . go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the lord, which was nigh even fifty-six years should wind up the scene" (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 182). "On the 14th of Feb. 1835, Joseph Smith uaid [said] that God had revealed to him that the coming of Christ would be within 56 years, which added to 1835 shows that before 1891 and the 14th of Feb. the Savior of the world would make his appearance again upon the earth and the winding up scene take place" (Journal of Oliver Boardman Huntington, Vol. 2, pp. 128,129). Another false prophet!
If I check my watch...WHAT? How can it be 2005 when the Lord hasn't come yet? But Joseph Smith said the Lord was supposed to come ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!! He must be a FALSE PROPHET!
I am trying to get my wife to see the truth and think deep down she know's but wants to hold on just in case the church is true. She likes the concept of being together eternally. I am going to get the newsletter and order some books in the near future for my own research and to have around in hopes that she will read them as well since I can't get her to look at your website.
We sell this book but if you buy it from the LDS bookstore your wife couldn't accuse you of buying 'anti' Mormon books.
. . . I was reading thru your big book on Mormonism and saw the last updates were in about the 1980's Is Blood Atonement still being practiced this day, in the year 2005? I know the main Church denies it. But not sure of the sects coming from it.
Also for the gay mormons, you think they might be a target? . . .
Clinton got Koresh and his followers, why can't the gvt shut the Mormon church down, and try them for murder. Like Mountain Meadow massacre, and their other killings they done over the years.
Where I'm at in Wyo, we got a whole slew of Mormons up here but dunno if we got sects up here too.
I am not aware of any LDS vigilante group out to get gays. Some individual might get that fanatic, but I am not aware of any specific danger to gays by LDS members.]
I am emailing you to say that I love the letters and emails in the Messenger that tell of deceived, lost souls coming to know the truth and having a true personal relationship with the Lord Jesus - the Biblical Jesus.
May God richly bless you and Jerald and your efforts to make the truth known. Keep up the good work!
Too Whom this may concern,
. . . I'm not Mormon. I would consider it an insult too be thought of as such! Mormon I am not!!! Christian I am! Well informed you're not! But I could be wrong! If you can prove me wrong, I'll admit it! However I think you're work is cut out for you!
I wanted too share a few little known facts about the Book of Mormon. I am a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. My church and the Mormon Church were the same church. This was long before the Mormon Church even existed. If you will do some investigative reporting, you'll find why the names are different. One reason was Joseph Smith was murdered. This is where the lie begins. Joseph Smith was murdered by Briggham Young. Police investigative reports concluded that Briggham Young hired the mob too kill Joseph Smith.
Did you know that over 250 Churches worldwide teach the Book of Mormon alongside the bible? That it fully supports the bible in every way? That the Bible also supports the Book of Mormon fully in every way as well? So I ask you? Have you even read the Book of Mormon? One not rewritten by the Mormon church? If not, hold you peace till you have!
Also the Bible and the Book of Mormon were not too be used by themselves. Rather too bring the Jew and Gentile to a knowledge of Jesus Christ. How can the Book of Mormon be false with a mission statement like that? You tell me? I want too know? Please read below before you spit me back answers.
What few Christians know, is that there was a struggle for power in the new church. This power struggle happened after Smith's death Briggham Young was one of the main power brokers making a bid for control. The church split. Of the split, 9 churches were created. One of them the Mormon Church. Point being the Mormon Church did not exist till after Smiths demise. After Young's bid for power failed.
Another small lie is the Joseph Smith started The Mormon Church. This is not so. The Mormon church took the name of the original church. Stole it is more like it. After Smith was murdered, Briggham Young went where? He went west too Utah. Why? Because at that time the law had no jurisdiction there. It was the 1830s, and law enforcement nation wide at that time did not exist. Having killed once, the Mormon Church start the much feared and hated Hells Angels. A group of vigilanties that would killed Christians in God's name, take their goods and property. It is no wonder the Mormon church gave the Book of Mormon a black eye!
An other hole in your argument is the Mormons claim Joseph Smith gave the plates back too the Angel! This is not so. God commanded Smith too let no man touch the plate besides himself. Smith was disobeyed. He gave the plates too one man too be delivered too another. ( Sorry, It's 1:00 AM I'll need too go find my documentation too back this up. Just not now! ) The plates vanished. Just now quite as the Mormons claim.
Another fact. The Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints was proven in a court of U.S. law, too which you can find corroborative evidence, too be the original owners of the original manuscripts. Not the Mormon Church.
Another facts. Your King James Bible which I read and study, contains direct scripture too another people, another record another land. Ezekiel 37: verse15-28 dealing with records too be written. Isaiah 29: verse 10-24 mentioning a book delivered too him that is not learned, the learned cannot read it, for they say it is sealed. sounds like Book of Mormon.
The scripture in Revelations dealing with adding too are subtracting from the bible. Logically that doesn't work. Look at Proverbs: 30 verse 5-6. The adding too or taking away warning is standard text messaging of the day. Check Deuterronomy12: Verse 32.
The logic of the bible being the only word of God does not work. First there is a cirtain biblical counsel in a certain record of the Jews, who met and decided what books would be in the bible out of the thousands that existed. If these men that met in this church had man kinds best interests at heart, they would not have done as the Mormon Church murdering off thousand of Muslims during the quote Holy Wars in the Holy Lands in the name of our Lord! Point being man is fallible, even when inspired by God. Point #2 is that you are rejecting the Book of Mormon on the same basis as the Jews reject the whole New Testament. If Deut 12:32 is correct, then everything after this mentioned book is false doctrine.
One last fact for now. Joseph Smith interpreted the Book of Mormon in something like 62 days. Not enough time too manufacture a detailed hoax such as you suppose the book of Mormon too be. My mother is a published author. I have watch the work one goes through too create a book too publish. She has spent a year with one 40,000 word book. The Book of Mormon is much, much larger!
I suggest you investigate the original church too whom the Book of Mormon was given. I also suggest you tread carefully. You bibles confirm what you want too deny. You stand in danger of the Judgement of heaven. You are even if with well meant intent, creating division of Christ's doctrine, church and people. In effect, you are in danger of being the pawn of the adversary, too disrupt and contend with the hearts and minds of Christ's people. If you intend too condemn the Book of Mormon without proper study. You yourselves will be like wise judged before the judgement seat of God.
I also bear testimony that the Book of Mormon is true. The Holy Spirit has confirmed it personally too me. Perhaps I'm special. I am part American Indian. Yet I don't think that is so.
I warn you again, be careful what you right for or against something you obviously don't know about!. There is great evidence you're wrong. I would be greatly afraid too tamper with the words of the prophets. I suggest you be so too. Study your bible. I am not a biblical expert, but even I know where too look.
The Book of Mormon, is the second testimony of Jesus Christ. It is not meant too be used without the bible. Yet it can and will stand alone on it's own merits. Science even backs it up. Read the book He walked The America's. It will confirm the fact that a white God walked on water, raised the dead, and heal the sick in this land called America. Don't be afraid.
You sincere friend in Christ
[Sandra's Note: Your letter is not only full of inaccuracies but jumps from subject to subject.
First, where is there any police report linking Brigham Young to Smith's murder? I believe Brigham Young to be a rogue, but I am not aware of any such evidence to connect him with Smith's murder.
Third, I don't believe the Bible and Book of Mormon support each other. Joseph Smith is guilty of massive copying from the Bible. See these—
From other sites—
Fourth, yes I have read the Book of Mormon several times, including the first edition.
Fifth, just because the Book of Mormon says its purpose is to bring people to Christ is not enough to prove it is scripture. There are thousands of books written for that purpose. But if the Book of Mormon is not historical it is not what it claims to be and would not be a witness to Christ.
Seventh, I doubt you have a valid historical reference for the assertion that Smith passed the gold plates on from one man to another and then they vanished. Smith himself said he gave the plates back to the angel.
Eighth, the lawsuit you referred to about the RLDS Church proving it was the true successor of Smith's church related to the ownership of the Kirtland Temple, not to the Book of Mormon manuscript (See BYU Studies, vol.25, no,.3, pp. 110-113). David Whitmer had the original printer's manuscript prior to it ending up in the hands of the RLDS Church. So is Whitmer's church the true successor? Brigham Young brought what was left of the actual original manuscript of the Book of Mormon to Utah.
Ninth, as for the Bible reference in Ezekiel 37, see Book of Mormon Overview.
I have read the Book of Mormon many times and studied the archeological and historical issues involved. There is no artifact or inscription that would show it to be a genuine record of ancient people. It is clearly a product of the nineteenth century. I hope you will take the time to read the various articles we have posted on our site under Topical Index: Book of Mormon.]
June 20, 2005
My husband and I have decided to leave the LDS church. We are converts of about 14 years. We've been thinking about this for about two years and are just now visiting other churches.
I have two questions. The first involves my children. We've taught them, like most LDS parents, that the LDS church is the only true church on earth. Now we are leaving. The first Sunday we visited another church and we told the children, the first thing my 7 yr. old said was, "are we visiting a true church?" Do you have any guidance on how to explain our decision to our children?
Also, I'm unsure how to actually leave the church. We haven't told anybody at church about our decision, but we'll have to soon. What should we say or do in reguards to telling our ward of our decision ? I belive we are looking for a graceful way out and it's turning out to be one of the most difficult decisions of our lives. Any help or encouragement will be appriciated.
[Steve's Note: I would encourage you to explain to your children that you have learned the true church is not found with any one particular group but that all who follow Jesus as their Lord and Savior are part of his true church. Let them see in your life that you too can learn new things and that a healthy faith is not afraid of being re-examined over and over throughout our lives.
You can tell them you are visiting other churches to see if what they teach agrees with what God has revealed to us in the Bible. After you confirm that the church you are visiting is both sound in doctrine and actively shows the love of God toward others, then you will consider joining that church as members.
I would not presume to tell you how to tell those in your ward of your decision. This is a very personal decision. What may be right for one person may not be right for others. The choice is yours as to how you prefer to handle this. I can tell you some people prefer not trying to explain themselves to others while others want to use it as an opportunity to let others know what caused them to leave.
Unfortunately, not everyone experiences a smooth departure from the LDS Church. Some have been able to maintain good relationships after leaving; while others have been mistreated by being ridiculed, maligned or having their integrity questioned. Whatever your case may be, we would encourage you to continue to hold your heads high and treat those around you as you want to be treated. Remember the words in scripture when it says:
"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. . . . Live in harmony with one another. . . . Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. . . . Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:9-21)
". . . But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened." But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit" (1 Peter 3:9-18)
Finally, know, too, that we are here for you to help you in any way we can to lift you up again when times of doubt and discouragement may come.]
You might want to contact Mormons in Transition for more moral support.]
I am LDS and I came across this website. I am ALWAYS amazed at people who do not agree with the LDS faith, how much time and energy, plus the RESOURCES used in trying to tell people how wrong LDS church is, and they really should be spending time in their own faith. Sounds kind of fishy if you ask me.
In our faith, we allow people to have their right to worship as they please. It would be nice if people would allow the LDS the same privilege without all the bashing. Now I am not in Utah, I am in Ohio, so maybe it is different with so many Mormons around, I don't really know. But out here in the "Mission Field" it is probably a different atmosphere. Lighten up people and move one with your life and make your mission on Jesus taught, and he taught us to "love one another" right? Put your energies into those who share your same belief instead of disputing a religion you disagree with.
I don't talk about the Catholic Church, or bash those who are Jews, hey they believe what they want to. So, let the LDS do the same thing. and, I think if people want REAL and ACCURATE info, go to the source. Do not rely on those who disagree with the LDS religion to give a positive view or opinion, you should go to the reliable source the official website. www.lds.org
Our church will be doing some prayer walking in a heavily Mormon populated area and we could use some ideas from someone who understands.
[Steve's Note: I would encourage you to begin by reading the article we have on our website called Sharing Your Faith with Latter-day Saints.
Of course, as Christians we pray to God for the Mormons around us as we would any who are lost and need to receive God's free gift of eternal life. Some attitudes to keep in mind as you pray for Mormons and as you pray for them would include:
As you pray for them you can pray:
I pray all of this will be helpful to your ministry and that God will bless many in your community through this.]
June 21, 2005
I have noticed in studied that there is a hole in the Mormon doctrine. If you would please, turn your Bible to Galations chapter one verse eight. Read out loud and consider what your beliefs are. Here's the verse for your convience.
"But even if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."
Who delievered your doctrine, who was the messanger from God. Was it not an angel from heaven? Consider these things and explain your beliefs in defense or else spread this realization to all of your Mormon friends that you may be more acceptable to God. I am very concered about your soul and the souls of all Mormons. It seems that Mormons are worshiping a false doctrine. Is verse of the Bible not inspired? . . . .
Sandra and Gerald, Yesterday I received one of my favorite pieces of mail—the Salt Lake City Messenger! You deserve a great deal of credit for your unfailing devotion to spreading the truth, and right in Salt Lake City, the nerve center of what has become an enormously wealthy and powerful international organization.
As a BYU student of Mormon history at a time when the Church's jaws of secrecy were not clamped so tightly around the truth, I was asked by a well-known history professor to research the subject of Joseph's plans to ordain Emma a priestess (yes, with the full powers of the priesthood).
The modern LDS establishment holds little in common with the church begun by Joseph Smith, and no doubt he would be promptly excommunicated today. How shockingly little Mormons know about their own religion and its history! Many of your published "Excerpts from Letters and Emails" testify to the ignorance and fear of the "faithful". I sincerely hope that your work will not die when you and Jerald are no longer able to continue. My best wishes are with you in your lawsuit to protect Lighthouse Ministries and your own names.
Look at the bright side, at least the Mormons appear to have given up the practice of using blood atonement against their enemies!
Have a peaceful summer.
(please use no part of my name, as I'm not 100% sure about them giving up the blood atonement thing).
[Sandra's Note: Thanks for your encouragement. As for blood atonement, I don't believe the LDS Church practices that anymore or we would have been at the top of the hit list.]
I have used your info and materials for 25 years. Keep up the good work.
. . . Blessings on your lawsuit. I am praying for you. Just talked to two Spanish LDS ladies. The Mormons are really appealing to the Spanish around here [in Illinois].
Thank you for your time.
[Sandra's Note: You may be thinking of the Wyoming case of a non-Mormon doctor accused of molesting his LDS patients. That case is related in the book, Doc, by Jack Olsen. However, he and his family insist he was innocent.
See our Topical Index: Abuse for articles about Mormon abuse. And also these links:
I am a sixteen year old from Ohio and have a few mormon friends that I talk to and your resources have been a great help in trying to show them the truth. . . .
Love in Christ,
They came to my door and tried to talk to him (my son) asking if he was coming to church? My husband and I (not [his] natural dad) are pastors, and were deeply conserned that there are peopel presenting a different, but more seriously, very false beleif to our son! What can I do, to get his name off, did his granparents have the right to put him on and baptize him without my knowledge?
[Sandra's Note: You did not indicate your son's age. Usually soon after a child is born a Mormon will take the child to church to have him "blessed" and given his official name, which is then entered on the church records. But this is not baptism. Mormons do not baptize anyone until they reach the age of 8.
I assume he is just on their records as a child of a Mormon, possibly placed there due to a "blessing" or by his grandparents. You could contact the bishop of the local LDS ward and tell him you do not want any further contact made with your child and to take him off any visitation lists.]
I am looking to buy a first edition (any printing) of McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine." Any suggestions as to who might have one for sale?
[Sandra's Note: You may be able to locate a copy through a used book store. Try one of these.
Or try Ebay.]
It is interesting that you so desperately hate Joseph Smith. I often wonder what you would have done if you had been in Jerusalem in 33 A.D. when Jesus first appeared with his "radical" new doctrines and points of view that defied your comfortable, traditional belief system. . . .
I am fascinated by the part in "The Passion of the Christ" where the Jewish high priests and Pharisees mock Christ. It makes my stomach wrench, yours too? What a poignant scene, It reminds me of your ministry when the Jews shouted red-faced that the "strange" teachings of Jesus were absolutely heretical. Sheer blasphemy they declared.
. . . what else would someone say to 'ol Joe Smith? "No way in Hell did God speak to this NY farm boy. Surely if God sends a prophet again it will be someone great like Billy Graham." Not a 3rd grade farm boy with delusions of grandeur, right? . . .
I know you love Jesus. But honestly, it's really easy today. Christianity is everywhere, it's the new "it" thing in America. . . . Stop obstructing Christ's mission. It's time you recognized truth. God's exquisite plan has been restored and you are about to be on the wrong side of history. Repent and become a member of God's Church or your name will be cast in the wrong role when an aspiring filmmaker films an updated version of "The Passion" two thousand years from now.
Subject: the church wont leave me alone!!!!
I am confused. I sent a registered letter to records room in SLC and my previous bishop. He called 3x. My husband said no more. They required a letter from my children stating they need to sign. Now I get a letter from Gregory Dodge supervisor member and statistical records, asking me to reconsider. Sent a brochure from the 1st pres. inviting us back and stating our PREVIOUS bishop I no longer am a member as far as I am concerned) will be contacting me.
HOW CAN I MAKE THIS STOP>
[Sandra's Note: I am sorry to hear that your bishop is being so uncooperative. Some are responding promptly to people's request for membership termination. I would suggest writing your bishop again, and send a copy of the letter to Gregory Dodge at LDS headquarters, stating something to the effect that you consider his repeated calls and lack of action as disrespectful of your wishes, religious discrimination and harassment. This is America. You have the right to join OR QUIT any religion as your conscience leads. Remind him that his own LDS Articles of Faith, no.11, states —
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Remind him that you do not want any further calls or visits by representatives of his church. Their handbook says the bishop is supposed to wait 30 days to see if you change your mind. Tell him you wave all waiting periods and insist that he immediately act on your previous instructions. Also inform him that if he does not send you a letter by July 15 (or two weeks from receiving the letter) stating that you and your family's memberships have been terminated as you instructed you will be forced to go to the media with your story of harassment.]
I have had the chance to have the mormon missionaries to visit in my home and I was asked to pray to see if the book of mormon was true. I read the article "How do we Test a Prophet" and told the missionaries that I couldn't do what they were asking because it was questioning God's word. They asked me where it said specifically in the bible where we shouldn't pray about the book's truth. I couldn't find it when they asked and now I can't find it again.
MY question is where can I show the missionaries that we are not to pray about a prophet? They countered my question asking why I could believe Moses was a prophet and not Joseph Smith (they wanted to study more on my questions about Smith's false prophecies). Any help would be appreciated!
[Sandra's Note: Here is the link to our article on How Do We Test a Prophet?
Mr. Cowan's entire book will be of help to you in talking with the LDS missionaries.]
Your book, "The Changing World of Mormonism" was like a very strong cup of coffee, hard to swallow at first, but it opened my eyes wide. I was born and raised in the mormon church, my family are mormon pioneers on both sides. My Great Aunt married Lorenzo Snow's son, and I had my Patriarchal Blessing by LeGrand Richards when I was 15.
Although I was into the church, I felt an extreme amount growing up. I drifted away when I was 21, I never felt good about myself because I didn't go with the program. I didn't marry in the temple, actually my ex husband is Catholic, I think I marry him as a sort of rebellion, I hated how my parents paid, and paid and paid into the church, the were both school teachers and I have 2 sisters, and 2 brothers but I felt so poor.
I use to dream of having a wedding were I could walk down the aile of a church, with bridesmaids and flower girls, and the like.
I remember when my parents talked about me wanted to marry my ex, I said, "I don't have money for a wedding, and they would just tell me it wouldn't cost anything if I married in the temple."
I thought ya right, just 10 percent for the rest of my life, and 10 percent for the rest of his too, so we married with Justice of the Peace.
Although I had become inactive to the extreme I think I still thought the church was true, I was, just too cheap and evil. But your book opened my eyes, I haven't had my name removed from the church, I am going to wait til my parents pass away, otherwise I would lose my inheritance.
I am so blown away, I never realized it, I was raised in a cult, but at least I know now thank you so much for putting your book online, I can't afford to go out and buy it, my income is extremely limited because I am on Social Security, but your book has helped me as much as my other book I cherish, "Courage to Heal."
My wife, _____, and I enjoyed meeting and talking with you at your book store in Salt Lake last Thursday. I have long admired the work you and your husband have done to keep the historical evidence alive and prevent those who would clean up the story falsely from going unchallenged. Any system of belief that misrepresents God's nature and places salvation on a basis of works can save no one. It is indeed loving to keep feet to the fire when the stakes are so great.
I was amazed by your enormously heavy lead model of the golden plates alleged by Joseph Smith to contain the original Book of Mormon. After my expressing some doubt about the weight calculations of your model versus the original, I thought I should check my facts (using the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 84th edition, pp. 4-13 and 4-17) and report them to you.
I was a little surprised to find that the slightly heavier atoms of lead combine to make a metal that is much "fluffier" than gold does. Lead has an atomic weight of 207.2 atomic units, which is about 5% more than the 196.97 of gold. This difference was basis of my initial doubt. However, metallic lead has a density of only 11.3 grams per cubic centimeter, whereas gold packs a full 19.3 grams into each cubic centimeter. That makes lead's density 41% less than that of gold! Of course, any two objects of the same dimensions but made of these two metals would have the same 41% difference in their weights.
Using these density figures and the given dimensions of 6 x 6 x 8 cubic inches, I find that your assertion about the nearly immovable weight of the Book of Mormon is true. Your lead replica has a computed weight of 117.3 lbs. (I find that accords with how heavy it felt to me when I lifted it). The corresponding calculation for the gold original alleged by Joseph Smith would yield a weight of 200.3 lbs. It is certainly doubtful that a man could walk far, let alone run, while carrying such a weight. To lift it through a window and have a weaker person like his mother take it is physically quite implausible. To have her fail to remark on its weight is impossible.
I believe your model reveals a very serious flaw in Joseph Smith's credibility.
[Sandra's Note: Thanks for sharing your research. We will be dealing with this in our November newsletter.]
[Steve's Note: I will need some specifics from you if I am to try to answer your statement that "the Book of Mormon does not state any of this." Let me know what it is that you have found that is in error and we can go from there.]
I have never questioned that the church was true, but now I am. I stumbled upon a word "neophyte". It sounded offly familiar to me, Ironically it means a beginner. I am not one to act irationally, I need proof that all I have been taught is wrong.
Without preaching to me to try to get me to leave the church, can you show me evidence? I have read about the book of abraham, and the fasimiles bieng funeral pictics, and I have also read of joseph smith trying to pass on the prophisy to his brother and his son.I have read a non-evangelical web site. now please show me what I don't know. and help me figure out how to let go. loving god shouldn't be this fearful.
[Steve's Note: You are asking exactly the kind of questions you should be asking to determine the truthfulness of what you have been taught. There is plenty of evidence on our web site to show that the Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and the teachings of the LDS Church are not able to withstand serious examination.
Furthermore, much of what the LDS Church teaches is directly at odds with the record of the Bible and history. I have listed below more information on some of the topics you have mentioned. I would ask you to read at least these following articles listed on our Online Resources page of our web site.
You may also be helped by reading some of the books we offer.
Keep asking the tough questions of your faith. Only a faith which can face the hard questions is worth having. God is not displeased with the questions we may ask about our faith. On the contrary, God welcomes our questions and he invites us to examine what we are taught to see if it measures up. (see Isaiah 1:18 and Acts 17:11) Jesus taught that all who come to him in faith, he will certainly not drive out (John 6:37). Jesus made it clear that he came not to judge the world but to save us because of his love for us. (see Mark 10:45, Luke 19:2, and John 3:16). It is with this faith in Jesus to pay the price for for our sins that we can know we have eternal life (1 John 5:13) and we can then live to please God not to earn our salvation but because of our gratitude and love for God's saving us. (Ephesians 2:10 and Romans 12:1) If I can be of more help to you as you step out in faith trusting Jesus and the Bible please let me know.]
Thank you for sending me more information on this subject. I have decided with my husband to find a new way of expressing my faith in God. To see that you did actually care enough to write back, that means a lot to me. I felt really betrayed by everyone around me who has taught me my whole life but I understand they are only doing what they have been taught. It is a viciouse cycle I wish everyone could see. How can I help others come to realize without making them feel as hurt and betrayed as I have when finding the truth?
[Steve's Note: I am not sure you can ever completely help them come to the truth without them also feeling the hurt and betrayal you have. What you can and should do for them is to be there for them to help them understand they are not alone and they are not the first to have gone through this. You need to let them see that you care not only about the truth but also about them as a person. You are not there just to turn their world upside down on them. Through your commitment to them they will hopefully see you love them enough to tell them the truth—even when you know that this will be painful for them to hear. This is why Proverbs 27:6 says, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."]
What is this ibid book I keep seeing reference to? I read alot of things that make me question but I don't know of this book and the truth to it.
[Sandra's Note: "Ibid." is not the name of a book. It's a technical way of referring to the previous title cited without retyping the same name of the book over and over. Here are some explanations.
Hope this helps.]
I have been beaten down, challenged and almost disowned for leaving the Mormon Church but by God's grace, He has strengthened and lifted me higher than I ever thought possible. I held a prayer vigil in a small southern town (my childhood town) after the 9/11 incident and there were hundreds of Mormons that came. The prayer vigil turned into a revival because God showed up!! The impossible became possible. This prayer vigil was in two newspapers stating that a Penecostal from Santaquin, Utah led a prayer vigil for the 9/11 victims and heroes. I got a lot of flack from the church leadership, I believe because I was a female (and Christian, but they didn't know it at the time), but these Mormon people were so grateful and surprised because it was so out of the norm for them.
It's great to be in God's army, especially when you are on the front lines but know He is sitting right the side of you. I can't imagine what your Ministry has gone through but I can imagine what God has done for your Ministry. Very grateful for your website. Imagine the people who will one day tell you that you saved their souls by Truth. God bless both of you.
I am looking for resources to help a woman . . . lead a Bible study for new members in her church that are coming out of the LDS background! Exciting! . . . What she hopes to have is very basic, very fundamental truths taught so that these now Believers can see the difference in the language and people that has been used by both Christians and Mormons. An example that she gave was the Mormon teaching that Jesus and Satan are brothers and helping them to understand "begotten" and "plan of salvation". Any help that you can provide would be very helpful. . . .
Because of my own discoveries my wife and I have become inactive in the LDS Church and after reading (on an other website) the LDS church handbook's description on how to remove your name from the Church records, I wondered why should we go through all the aggravation that the church would impose upon us. . . .
[Sandra's Note: I don't think it matters to God one way or the other if someone's name is still listed on the LDS rolls. However, if everyone who has left Mormonism terminated their membership it would probably lower the LDS membership numbers by at least a million, maybe more. This would hurt their public relations program and might generate some news that Mormonism isn't growing at the rate the church claims.
Some people remove their names to stop the constant visits by the ward. Some feel it is a cleansing rite, a graduation of sorts. Some leave their names on out of respect (or fear) of their family. As a Christian I wanted to take a stand for what I believed and didn't believe. I wanted my ward and family to know that I was leaving over truth issues, not that I couldn't keep the word of wisdom or was falling short on some other moral issue they imagined (like drinking iced tea).]
We had a couple of the missionaries over and got into a discussion about J. Smith's false prophesies. I brought up the one about Patten's mission in the Spring of 1839, D&C 114, but got the following response back.
Patten became apostate before the mission but returned to J. Smith and repented saying he wished he could die for becoming apostate and failing J. Smith. The missionaries claimed that if Patten had not become apostate he would have gone on the mission.
I pointed out to them that was absurd, God certainly would have known about the betrayal before giving Joseph the prophecy. They claimed it was because I just didn't understand the scriptures well enough.
Could you shed some light on this for me?
[Sandra's Note: My, they sure have that one mixed up. Patten died in a gun battle. In October of 1838 Patten led a group of Mormons on a raid to free some of their brothers who had been taken prisoner by the Caldwell County, Mo., militia and was shot. (For a Mormon source on Patten's death, see Story of the Latter-day Saints, by Allen and Leonard, p. 136. For a list of some of Smith's failed prophecies, see A Sample of Joseph Smith's False Prophecies.)
Here is a Mormon site explaining how Patten died as a faithful LDS apostle.
Mormons usually respond to our false prophesy claim by saying if Patten hadn't been killed he would have gone on the mission. But surely God knew he was going to be killed, so why give the prophecy? Others have stated to me that he was called to a greater mission in the next life. However, this would not have fulfilled the prophecy. It states that he was to go on his mission "next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself." But he was shot in October so the date fails. And who were the others that were supposed to go with him?]
. . . Would it be possible to have clarification on the "Main Street" issue? For some reason I can't seem to remember what it was about. . . . Thank you for your kind response to my question.
[Sandra's Note: I am not sure what you have read about the Main St. problem, but here is a link to KSL where you can read more about it.
These sites tell you how the whole thing got started
Hello and God Bless,
I'm confused about what the mormon rules are on drinking coffee, Coca Cola, and alcohol. I heard the rules changed and the mormons are allowed to drink Coca Cola now. (I heard angel moroni (whatever) came to someone and said it was ok....) Anyway, I also heard the mormons owned Beer Breweries, and Pepsi Cola plants. This would mean that the mormons make money off products they feel are unhealthy for people.
I don't mean to sound so cold, but someone very close to me just turned mormon and I am spinning with hurt.
[Steve's Note: The only official position of the LDS Church is that alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea are proscribed by the Word of Wisdom. This teaching is found in the book, Doctrines & Covenants, section 89. Unfortunately, things have been made unclear by various LDS leaders making statements in the past that Mormons should not drink other beverages which contain the same chemicals as coffee and tea. Therefore, the situation is that many Mormons today will not drink soft drinks (containing caffeine) to set a hedge around a possible violation of the Word of Wisdom.
The Mormon Church does not have exclusive ownership of breweries or cola plants. Through some of their holdings it is possible they have interests in some of these companies as part of the package of a mutual fund or other investment. There is additional information you could read on our website about inconsistencies in Mormon history and its leadership as related to the Word of Wisdom. See: Topical Index: Word of Wisdom.
I would encourage you to try to continue to reach out to the one you know who is Mormon and show love the way you would want to be loved if the tables were turned. Use this as a time to learn about what the LDS Church teaches and how that compares to Christianity. A good resource for you to begin with is our online article, Sharing Your Faith with Latter-day Saints.]
The only hitch is that when they get to the point where they show a portrait of Bruce R. McConkie, they show a portrait of Marvin J. Ashton instead. Makes us all look kinda dumb. I have no trouble recommending the videos, though. Again, forgive me if this is all old news to you.
Bless you guys!