Jan. 2, 2003
Please put me on your mailing list. I need to know everything I can so that I can arm myself to protect my daughter. She is 22 years old, just graduated from .........University ......a Christian college, was raised in the Church of Christ, and well grounded.. or so I thought. She came home from college and called an old friend who was just a friend at the time but has come to be a lot more now. He is 21 and a Mormon.
My daughter had adamantly stated in the past that they were just friends and it would never work because of their differences.
We have been going round and round about this and I hear his words coming from her mouth more and more and I am in mortal fear of the path she seems headed down. She practically refuses to read or hear anything negative about the LDS and in fact, they boyfriend stated to me that if I had any questions about the LDS that I should ask him because you are not going to get a fair comment from an anti-LDS website.
He also tries to kill my husband and I with kindness and politeness and his spirituality but he knows now that we are seeing through him and that I do not care for him. He left last year on his mission but was sent home because he apparently was not abiding by mission rules and had contacted an old girlfriend of his and was communicating with him. I do not know how the missions work and what their expections and rules are. So, he is supposed to return next month to complete his mission for 15 months.
My greatest fear is that he will propose to my daughter and she has said she would say YES but that they would not get married 'unequally yoked" and when I asked he who would change and would she become a Mormon, she said, "I don't know." My blood turned ice cold inside me at that point.
I am sorry to go on and on when I was just asking to be put on a mailing list for information. In the meantime, I welcome any help and ALL PRAYERS on her behalf for God to intervene and defeat this relationship before it is too late. ...Please take their names to God in your prayers.
Thank you for all your good work.
[Sandra's Note: You might want to order our set of photos from LDS books called, Godhead and Virgin Birth Photos.
These LDS quotes will show some of their doctrines that they don't make clear to outsiders or new members.
Another possible approach would be to order the book Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith from the LDS book store Deseret Book. 801-328-8191. www.deseretbook.com
The book is written by two LDS women historians and gives an honest look at the beginnings of Mormonism and some of Smith's lesser known activities, like magic, money digging, plural marriage. It never says Smith is a false prophet, but it raises many historical problems that could get her thinking. By getting it from the official LDS store you eliminate the problem of it being 'anti' Mormon. But it should help raise some red flags.
Sure hope the boy goes on his mission. That absence may really help to give her the space to think about this all better. The most important thing is to keep her from actually getting baptized. Once a person has done this, it is much harder to get them to reason.
As for the mission, the boys are limited on their correspondence (the church doesn't want them distracted or spending their time on letters home)....
Mormons are always telling people to 'pray' and go with a 'feeling' or 'inner voice' that tells them Mormonism is true. You need to point out that feelings can be wrong, many people around the world 'feel' that their faith is right. That is why Muslims, who are moral and pray regularly throughout each and every day, are willing to die for their beliefs. Converts to all religions feel u peace about their decision, but that does not insure that they have made the right choice. Jehovah's Witnesses have given me the same testimony. I have had the same experience us the Mormons, only in reverse. I prayed about the LDS Church and the Book of Mormon and God gave me a great peace that they were wrong and I should go buck to the Bible for my instructions. The difference is that I studied the Bible and Mormonism first, compared the two, and then prayed. Prayer alone is not the way to determine truth (since our own desires and emotions can cloud the answer), whatever belief we are considering must agree with the Bible.
Has your daughter read the Doctrine and Covenants (especially sec. 132) and the Pearl of Great Price (especially Book of Abraham about plural godschap.4compare with Genesis)?
Mormonism isn't just about the Book of Mormon, that is just the first step. She must also believe their other books of scripture and in secret temple rituals. Also see How Do We Test a Prophet?]
Jan. 3, 2003
....My wife and I enjoy your web site and all the hard work you have been doing over the years to bring the truths of mormonism to light!! Keep up the great work.
Jan. 5, 2003
Subject: The LDS brought me closer to God
Being a single parent and trying to make a living at the same time was a very difficult and emotional time for me. My two sons, who were entering the "I know everything" stage, were begining to give me so many problems. My older son decided he wanted to live with his father for a while, figuring the grass was greener, so my youngest son and I were left to deal with each other. He was constantly in trouble with the law, mainly doing pranks like stealing pumkins or trespassing.
I met and married a good man who accepted my son as if he were his own and we decided to move away from the area we were in to get a fresh start. We were expanding our family with the addition of two babies and needed a bigger house. After the move, things were getting much worse with my son. It wasn't small trouble he was getting into anymore, it grew into drug use and alcohol abuse and running away for days at a time.
I found myself praying so much for this kid throughout the day and was hoping for an answer to my prayers soon before he ended up dead. I was so alone with this and there wasn't anyone I was close to, so I was pretty much dealing with all of this by myself. My husband worked nights and I didn't tell him about some of the things that were going on.
Well, one day there was a knock on my door, and being in the desperate state I was in, I let those nicely dressed gentlemen into my home, and thus, began my journey to really knowing who God is.
They were so nice and caring and loving and when I started going to the church everyone accepted me as if they knew me my whole life and they were all so happy to see me. I was filled with such euphoria and was so at ease with these people. I understood how easy it was for people like myself to get swept into the middle of it all.
Now, there's a twist to this story, it involves a good friend of my oldest son. He was leaving for college in a couple of months and he had heard that I had gotten involved with the LDS. He came to my house to talk about this with me, mainly because his main goal in life was becoming an ordained minister and moving out to Utah to convert the mormons! He wrote down a web-site for me, which happened to be Jesus-is-Lord.com and told me to check it out.
Later that night I did just that. I read The ...Changing World of Mormonism and got into a few other sites about the LDS and it seemed that I couldn't get enough to read. My eyes were opened just in time! I couldn't believe how so many well educated people allowed themselves to stick with the LDS. It made no sense.
Now, several months have passed since that fateful day. I read my Holy Bible everyday and have a new relationship with God. I speak of Him to others and am working hard on getting my sons and husband to open themselves to Him and accept Him as their Savior.
I truly believe that if there was no knock on my door that day, I would still be procrastinating about reading my Bible or finding time to give to God with my words. Those elders gave me a reason to seek God, the true God, and the only God. I pray for them that they will soon find the truth for themselves.
God Bless you all,
Jan. 6, 2003
Thank you ...especially for your ministry. Coming from a Mormon household with polygamy background - it's very difficult to break away from. Your approach is truly appreciated.
Jan. 6, 2003
...Rebutting indoctrinated Mormons doesn't seem to do any good. They aren't able to see what's put in front of their noses. For people of common sense, one thing alone would disprove the B of M -- its statements on skin color. Now that the genetics of melatonin production are so well known, simply a matter correlating to proximity to the equator, any statement about darkness of skin having to do with unrighteousness is patent nonsense.
[Web-editor: See Racial Statements]
Jan. 6, 2003
Subject: Re: "Judging and Prejudging the Book of Abraham"
I am currently meeting with some LDS missionaries and a resident "expert" they have brought in. We have been discussing the Book of Abraham and their expert has come back to me with a paper from Farms, written by Hugh Nibley. I am wondering if there is already a direct response to this Nibley article? The article is titled "Judging and Prejudging the Book of Abraham"
Thank you for your help,
[Sandra's Note: I don't have a specific response dealing with that article. What is the date? It has to be fairly old. If it pre-dates 1979 Nibley has already disowned it.
In the Sunstone Mag for Dec. 1979 are two articles on the Book of Abraham. The first one is by Ed Ashment, showing the problems connected with Smith's supposed translation and taking Nibley to task. The second is by Hugh Nibley, where he says (on p.49):
So where does that leave us? Nibley was not an Egyptologist, how are we to know when he was right? In the Winter 2000, vol. 33, no. 4, issue of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, is an article by a genuine Egyptologist, Dr. Robert K. Ritner, of the Univ. of Chicago, who demonstrates that the papyri Smith owned were standard Egyptian funeral text and had nothing to do with Abraham.
Jan. 6, 2003
Subject: Comment on LDS Husband article
I would like to comment on, "How the LDS Husband Hopes to Resurrect His Wife According to the LDS Temple Ceremony" By Sandra Tanner. I have been a member of "The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Later-day Saints" pretty much my whole life. Going to the Temple is a very enlightening and spiritual experience for me. I don't know about the person who wrote this article, but it's obvious they have no idea what the Temple experience is or what any of it is about.
While some of her information is semi-correct, most of it is in gross error. We are admonished not to speak casually of our Temple experience, not because it's "secret", but because it's "sacred". Articles like this one only invite a spirit of contention, not to mention a great misunderstanding.
I believe that you're entitled to your opinions, but I do not believe you are entitled to teach doctrines that you do not understand. I politely ask that this article and others like it be removed or re-written correctly. If you would truly like to know what goes on in our Temple ceremonies or know more about our beliefs, all you have to do is ask us. The note on your e-mail page says: "We are not attempting to disparage those of the LDS faith, but rather to provide material and research that normally would not be available."
All material and information on the LDS church is available to the public, whether through the web, or printed literature or in our meeting houses. It is available. I hope that your intentions are to enlighten, and not to deceive, but from what I have read thus far... that would not seem the case.
If you truly want information to "be available" to your readers I ask that a link to the official LDS website be added after every article, so that your readers can have the freedom to search and ponder the truth for themselves. ...
Thank you for your time,
[Sandra's Note: Thanks for writing. I am all for people having the "freedom to search and ponder the truth for themselves." However, several issues popped out at me as I read your email.
1. You stated that while our information was "semi-correct, most of it is in gross error." Yet you failed to give any reference or the correct information. Specifically, which items were in "gross error" and where can I read an authorized LDS explanation? My article had numerous quotes from LDS sources. I would expect a response to give me a few references back.
2. You admit that Mormons are "admonished not to speak casually of our Temple experience." Yet you go on to state "If you would truly like to know what goes on in our Temple ceremonies or know more about our beliefs, all you have to do is ask us." Isn't this a contradiction in terms? Where has the LDS Church published its temple ceremonies, explained the meaning of the temple ritual or discussed the temple clothing and undergarments?
3. We do provide a link to the official LDS web site, but hardly feel that putting it at the end of every article would serve any purpose. They do not have material posted on most of the issues we cover. By the way, the LDS site never provides a link to any critical sites like ours.
4. We will correct any statement that can be shown to be in error, not simply a difference of opinion. Just send the specific LDS references that would correct our error, along with the reference to our material where it is wrong.]
Jan. 6, 2003
Subject: your web address
Just wondering why you would use a web address of www.latterdaysaints.com when you obviously are not. This is extremely deceiving, and I can only surmise that deception is your objective here. If you don't know what the Lord has to say about deception, maybe you should find out.
[Sandra's Note: First, that site is owned and maintained by another group, not us. They merely provide a link to our site. Second, I fail to see why there is a problem using 'latterdaysaints' since the site discusses issues relating to that topic. The internet is full of sites using religious names, words or titles, offering various points of view. Why should it be any different with Mormonism?]
Jan. 6, 2003
...I feel that I know you from all the reading of your work and from our correspondence. I've noted that the Mormons have changed one thing in their tv ads recently. Now they are telling us either to call, or to ask our Mormon neighbors for our copy of the Bible. Interesting. They certainly have beautifully illustrated ads. Lots of talent there.
Do folk come in off the streets to ask you about your work? You can't really preach on the street corners there in front of the temple...not for long, anyway.... Well, goodnight and best wishes in your work this year...
[Sandra's Note: When the Mormons first started offering free Bibles in their TV ads they were giving out Bibles from Christian publishers rather than the one they print and use. This seemed to be an effort to establish with people that they are 'regular' Christians and use the same Bible as everyone else. While they do use the King James Version, it has added LDS footnotes, cross references and their own dictionary and helps at the back. It also includes quotes from Joseph Smith's Inspired Revision of the Bible.
We have troubled Mormons stop in or phone every week to ask questions and buy books. Once in a while a devout Mormon will stop in to give me his/her testimony. Then I try to get them to dialogue with me for a few minutes. Hopefully we can plant a seed of doubt that will later lead them to further investigation.]
Jan. 6, 2003
Subject: Great Site
Hi Jerald and Sandra,
I think you have a very educational site. I have a friend who is Mormon. I have been trying to get him to see why Mormonism is false and your site, as well as a couple of others, is a great wealth of information. I have only been Born Again for about 7 months so the information that you have on your site has been a big help.
My friend did try and get me and my family to join Mormonism. I had been reading some Christian books about getting closer to Jesus and read about how the Bereans didn't just take what was said at face value. They searched the scripture daily to make sure that what they were being told was so. That is exactly what I did. He also tried to get me to read the BoM and pray on it to see if it was the true word of God. I declined to do that.
...Thanks for the great amount of help you have already provided.
Jan. 6, 2003
may heavely father forgive the people who have miss interpreted the church and the scriptures, those who have made up lies or have been upset with the church is no one to bad mouth it......please pray and may god humble your heart and that you may realize that what you are doing is wrong and miss leading.
Jan. 6, 2003
Subject: Info on Main St. Plaza
I am a born-again Christian who lives in Utah. I have heard for some time now about the great debate and political battle raging over the Main Street Plaza issue, and now about the ACLU and its pushing for "first amendment" rights there. My thoughts on the matter are in conflict:
1. I think that being denied the opportunity to bring information about the truth of Christianity and falsehood of Mormonism is bad.
2. I almost never agree with anything the ACLU does.
3. I wouldn't want any church to lose its right to limit behavior on its private property, because I wouldn't want to see that expanded to other churches in a way that I don't like.
I am curious what the opinion of UTLM and the Tanners is on this subject.
P.S. I was shocked and somewhat horrified over something this weekend. I had purchased a "board" book for my 2-year old niece from Waldenbooks at the Fashion Place Mall. It was called "My first Old Testament". There were basic O.T. stories in it, and great pictures, so I bought it, since I was, in fact, not shopping at Deserert Book. When I got it home and looked at it more closely, the first page was not about creation, it was about pre-existence. I was quite sickened by this, as this book is meant for infants and toddlers. Needless to say, I'm glad I looked more closely at this book before giving it to my niece. Also, the book is at the bottom of my trash can, under last night's scraped dinner plates.
[Sandra's Note: The central issue to keep in mind is that the LDS Church initiated the purchase of that block of Main Street and originally agreed to the easement, which would allow for the same freedom of speech allowed on any public sidewalk. Since they have a ton of lawyers, the free speech issue should not have taken them by surprise. They agreed to it. Now they want to renegotiate the agreement to restrict free speech. In my opinion, the city should have NEVER agreed to the sale in the first place. But since it is already done, the city and church should both live up to the original agreement.]
Jan. 7, 2003
Your testimonies touched me very much, and I can feel of your real heart felt sincerity in every word. I have been a member all of my life, and have been married in the temple, and have five children. I've had many questions about the church for many years, but never felt like I could ask the questions I really wanted to ask while in church.
I've been looking for answers to my questions lately, and finally made a book order from you off of your web site. "Mormonism Shadow and Reality" is a very informative, well researched book. I can tell that you have spent years in your search for the truth, and have an overwhelming amount of factual, credible evidences that support your claims.
The church is afraid of what your work brings to light. The church it's self is afraid of the truth, saying not to study anything about the church unless it's officially put out by the church, and to listen to the current prophet considering all matters that may arise, excepting everything that he says, as if it's coming from God himself.
I was always taught that all of this supposed "anti-Mormon literature" was all made up by the enemies of the Church, and for the longest time I hardly even gave it a second thought to actually even entertain the idea of even paying attention to it. But finally out of curiosity I wanted to see where all of this supposed "anti-Mormon" material actually came from. To my surprise the large majority of it came right from the leaders themselves, printed by the Church, and distributed to it's members as L.D.S. doctrine.
Well, thanks for listening, and thank you Brother and Sister Tanner for all of your diligence in your work.
May God bless your lives with happiness,
Jan. 7, 2003
Sorry to bother you but I am having trouble finding the letter you said was the earliest letter by Joseph Smith confirming his involvement in money digging etc. I would appreciate your help in locating it on your website, my husband thinks the "First Presidency Vault " is a fabrication. Is there any proof that it exists?
Thank you for all the help you have given me, you have no idea how your information is helping my difficult transition!
[Sandra's Note: I am not sure which item you are looking for. If you are looking for the court document from 1826 where Joseph Smith was arrested for 'glasslooking', the original is preserved in Norwich, NY. We have a copy of it; I can mail you a copy if you send your mailing address. Most Mormon scholars concede Smith was arrested in 1826 and that there was a preliminary hearing, they just down-play its importance. See The Story of the Latter-day Saints, by Allen and Leonard, published by Deseret Book, p.40-43.
For more information on Smith's magic/money-digging activities, see our book Mormonism, Magic and Masonry, Joseph Smith and the Origins of the Book of Mormon, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, or Inventing Mormonism.
If you are referring to Smith's 1832 first vision account, it is in several LDS books, like Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, compiled by Dean Jessee, pages 10-12. This is published by Deseret Book. We sell a collection of photos from LDS sources titled First Vision Photocopies. This includes photos of Smith's 1832 vision account.
Here is a reference to the First Presidency's vault from Sunstone Magazine:
This vault is known about among all researches of Mormonism, although few have had access to it.]
Jan. 7, 2003
Subject: Journal of discourses
I was wondering where I could get a complete set of the Journal of discourses in book form, that the L.D.S. church used to put out in there book stores? I would love to have an authenticated set of these discourses so that I can have them in my growing little library.
As a seperate note, I think that your web site is packed full of enlightening information, and a great source for a vast amount of books on many L.D.S. subjects not readily available for the average investigator.
[Sandra's Note: It is very hard to find a used copy of the reprint of the 26 vol. set of Journal of Discourses, and usually sells for over $300 dollars. However, it is available on the Mormon CD-ROM called GospeLink, sold at DeseretBook.com.]
Jan. 8, 2003
Subject: Name Removal
I just wanted to write and thank you for all you have done for me over the years. I first came in contact with you, a few years back when I started to have doubts about the mormon religion. Your materials answered many of my questions, and I was able to defend myself from critical family members and friends, once I let them know I no longer was following the mormon church. I am very comfortable and happy with my life away from the church and proud of the choice I made.
I never saw a reason to go through with a name removal until the recent debate over main street repeaked my interest. This last week I sent in a request for name removal and am also preparing a request for a roomate of mine, to be sent this week. Thank you for providing the procedure for accomplishing this on your web pages.
Your friend forever,
[Web-editor: See How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records]
Jan. 8, 2003
i am glad that i read the book called mormonism shadow or reality. at the time i really didn't know what to think. i got the book at a second hand store in calif. for 1.00 in 1994.. i never heard of mormons. until i read the book. it is a fine book.
Jan. 9, 2003
...I am so grateful for your website. It is a great resource for people like me who want to find good information that the Church makes it almost impossible to find. Thank you for the great work you are doing. God bless you and may he help your words to find its way to the hearts of more honest seekers.
I can't express how happy T..... and I are. We still haven't searched for another church. I am a former Methodist and will probably drift that way again some time. We're still pretty burnt out however, and will heal a little before jumping back in.
Incidentally, I began to read great Christian resources a long time ago. I quoted Max Lucado, Bob George and others to Institute classes and they loved it! I had them use the NIV, NKJV and others from my office when individuals forgot their Bibles. They loved those too. Take care, and thanks again for your work.
Jan. 9, 2003
Just wanted to send a short note to let you know that the books you sent to me were received in good condition...I thank you for your willingness to share with me. I really do appreciate everything you sent. May the Holy Spirit lead and guide you into all truth and light of His love...
Jan. 10, 2003
Subject: Temple Ceremony Question
I read something that said the mormon leadership will anoint various parts of your body during the temple ceremony, including the male and female genitals. Is this really correct?
If so, why and what exactly do they do?
[Sandra's Note: The first time you go through the temple endowment you go through a "washing and anointing" ceremony. Men are with men, women with women. You go to a locker room, disrobe, put on a big white sheet like a poncho. You then go into a small room like a shower stall where there are two attendants of the same sex as you. One of these people would ceremonially dip his/her fingers in some water and then touch your forehead, mouth, side of body, groin area (not on the genitals but to the side) while saying a prayer that you would think and speak the things of God and raise a righteous posterity. Then you would be anointed with oil in exactly the same manner. You will be given a new name, like Mary or Joseph. Then you would be assisted in putting on the LDS underwear/garment for the first time.
You would then go back to the locker room where you would put on a white shirt & pants (woman puts on white dress) white shoes, etc. You will also have a piece of white material (about the size of a twin bed sheet) that has been gathered across the middle. This you will wear draped over one shoulder. The person will also have a white sash to tie it on, a round white hat, sort of like a bakers hat, and a green apron. The woman also wears the long white gathered material over her dress, the green apron, and wears a white veil of about a yard of see-through material. These will be put on later in the ceremony.
You then join the other attendees in a meeting room where you will watch a video depicting the LDS version of the creation of the world and Adam and Eve, their fall and expulsion from the garden. You will be instructed on various handshakes and passwords necessary to go back into the presence of God the Father. You will also covenant to fully obey the church, keep the ceremony secret and put your life and means at the disposal of the LDS Church.
The temple ceremony has gone through many revisions through the years to make it a kinder, gentler experience. They no longer administer a death oath. We publish several accounts of the ceremony in our book Evolution of the Mormon Temple Ceremony, 1842-1990.]
Jan. 10, 2003
Subject The Underthings
Well, I came by your website by accident as I was actually looking for the real McCoy. However, now that I found you, I have a ? We are the newbies and the missionaries are working really hard toward getting us Baptized. A friend of mine mentioned the underclothing that Mormons wear. No one seems to want to talk about it and I haven't gotten a straight answer yet. It seems strange that they want to Baptize us but not tell us about these other things. Can you explain? Thanks
The Mormons know that if they told people the whole story people probably wouldn't join. Their claim is that the temple ceremony is too sacred to be discussed openly. However, the Hebrew temple ceremony is spelled out in the Old Testament. It was considered "sacred" but not hidden from anyone. I consider the Christian Communion Service to be "sacred" but anyone is welcome to attend or discuss it.
Since the Mormons claim that participation in their temple ceremonies is necessary to gain eternal life it seems only fair that a person know what he/she is getting into before they enter the temple. Here are sites that have pictures of the garments and the temple clothing.
Our book Evolution of the Mormon Temple Ceremony, 1842-1990 contains the complete ritual.]
Jan. 11, 2003
...My mother and father brought me up in Old apostolic luthern I believe that that is how you spell it any way i don't really believe in any one religious instituion but i do believe in god, i don't know if this is right but i do what i can.
My question is about my wife, she reciently converted to mormonism and neither one of us really know what it is all about so if i could be on your mailing list for your newspaper and possible be mailed some info. i would greatly appricate it. ...
Jan. 11, 2003
Subject: Missing books at Univ. of Central Arkansas
Doing research into various cults including Mormonism in the early 1970's, I discovered a number of books written during the late 1800's debunking Mormonism and exposing the activities of the "Danites" in Utah during frontier days. I didn't write down any of the authors and titles at the time. Later, when I was a manager at the bookstore at UCA, I decided to look those books up about 1979. During the intervening years several Mormon professors had come to Conway along with the building of a stake building on what is now Dave Ward Drive among several real church buildings.
To my surprise, none of the books I had read in 1971-2 were still in the library. They were in the card catalog, but they were ALL missing!
The information I had found was the supposed illiteracy of of the Smiths, the fact the family were "treasure hunters" who sold shares in their adventures, the plagerism of the whole book of mormon, and the kidnapping of women in western towns. I'm sure much of it was sensationalism, but the fact that NONE of the books were there is what amazed me.
Now I am a Methodist pastor in Arkansas and thankfully have little or no dealings with any Mormons. Their poor, young missionaries know nothing of the Danites. I just hope they go the way of the Seventh Day Adventists and give up the book of mormon for the real Bible--whichever edition.
Thanks for your organization. Light always shines in darkness.
bye love to all
Jan. 11, 2003
Subject: Church own ed corporate business
Could you please tell me if the Mormon church owns or has part ownership in the following business? Albertson's and Safeway Grocery Stores, Pepsi and Coca-cola Soft Drinks and Hobby Lobby Craft Stores. Thank you very much for answering,
[Sandra's Note: I have not seen them listed in material on LDS Church-owned businesses. The best current info on LDS finances is in Mormon America.]
Jan. 11, 2003
I am a former-Mormon and I have dedicated my life to evangelism and especially towards those wonderful people (who are my friends) trapped in Mormonism. I fell in love with the Tanners work. Their apologetic is awesome. I am developing a bible study that is focused on biblical basics with the intention to keep folks from being fooled by false teachers, doctrines, and philosophies. ...Thanks
Jan. 11, 2003
MY WIFE WAS MARRIED TO ANOTHER MAN ...HE HAS HER KIDS. AND IN THERE DIVORCE IT BASILY SAY THAT SHE HAS JOINT LEGIT CUSTODY. AND LIBERAL VISITAION WRITES.
ANYWAY TO BOIL IT ALL DOWN HE CAN NOT LET ANY NEW WIFE OF HIS TRY TO ADDOPT THE KIDS IF TONI SAYS NO. HOWEVER THEY HAVE TOLD US THAT HE DID AND THAT THEY WERE SEALED AS A FAMILY.
IF INDEED HE HAS DONE THIS HE OR SHE HAS FORGED TONIS (MY WIFE) ON THIS PAPER. AND THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW. WERE WHERE WONDERING IF THERE WAS ANY WAY TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH OF THIS MATTER. CAN ANYONE HELP US?????
[Sandra's Note: There would be a difference between a legal adoption, through the state, and a Mormon temple sealing as a family. A temple sealing is not recognized by the government as it is a religious ceremony.
Even in a temple sealing the father should have gotten your wife [the mother of the children] permission to have the kids 'sealed' to the father and his new wife. However, some bishops may overlook asking for permission. Did your wife give permission for the children to be baptized in the LDS Church? If so, the Bishop may have felt that he did not need to ask for permission for a temple sealing for the family. Perhaps you could check with the LDS Church membership dept. at (801)-240-3500.
I advise divorced people against giving consent for their children to be sealed in the temple to a step-father or step-mother. Not because I think the sealing actually accomplishes something, but it could give the impression to your children that you didn't care about being their father anymore. They could then come to view the new step-father as their 'real' father since they are sealed to him for eternity. This could also lead to increased feelings of abandonment for the children.]
Jan. 11, 2003
hello my name is _____ ______ i was once a member of the LatterDay Saints but due to some conflict i stop going.
I use to belong to a baptist church and i really enjoyed it when a neighbor need help regardless of time what it was the members of the church reached to help no questions asked, a freind of mine who was and still is a member of the LDS was on military duty and his wife had to move herself and her child with her being pregant and no one in the church offer to help her. I have personnaly asked for some and was refused this is no was to treat people. this may be wrong but it is how i feel.
[Sandra's Note: Sorry to hear about the problem your friend had moving. I suspect that for every story like this one someone else could cite a time when the Mormons came to their aid. My experience has been that the Mormons are generally pretty helpful, at least here in Utah. My problem is more with their teachings than their lack of neighborliness.
Hope you have found a good Christian church to attend.]
Jan. 11, 2003
I have to thank you. I am a fast believer in Joseph Smith, and the Book of Mormon, and I have to say that after reading some of the material in your site I have a whole new conviction that the Book of Mormon is true, and that it is the work of God, and that Joseph Smith is a divine man of God.
Perhaps your intent was to dissuade me from believing, but it has worked quite the opposite effect.
A Sincere Believer in God and His Work
Jan. 12, 2003
Subject: City Confidential Show on A&E
Dear Jerald and Sandra.
I was watching City Confidential a couple nights ago on cable and saw you (Sandra) and your Ministry captioned below on the screen.
I am a Born Again Christian attending a Calvary Chapel ...and was interested in the show. I did not know if your ministry was Christian or not, but now I know it is. I had a question about the show and then a comment.
First, concerning the Salamander Letter, was there any truth to it about the salamander being the source of the revelation? I'm just trying to get a grip of how much scandal the LDS Church was willing to go through if it were a lie. I was intrigued that A&E was used by God to expose some of the problems of Mormonism.
Second, in my work I am a contractor that does asphalt paving and concrete for a living. During the summer of 2002 I received a phone call through my yellow page add from the... (LDS) ..... I have bid on a project for the LDS church in another location several years ago and did not get the job and heard that they mostly use there kind. Well this time we landed the job to do some paving. My conscience bothered me and I asked my self if I could keep the profit for my own living and felt that I could not. I prayed and told the Lord that whatever profit I make on this project, I will donate to a ministry that evangelizes Mormons but didn't know who at the time. When I saw your ministry name I wrote it down and researched on the net and have confirmed your ministry is one I feel confident in. ...After our accounting is done for the last year I will find out how much I will be able to give to the Lord through your ministry. ...I love the idea that you are based in Utah!
[Sandra's Note: Mark Hofmann got his idea for the white salamander from the testimony of Willard Chase, printed in Mormonism Unveiled, written by E.D. Howe (1833), p. 242.
Mr. Chase stated that Joseph's father gave the following account of Smith finding the plates:
Mr. Chase had known the Smiths for some time and had hired them for various farm jobs. Once when digging a well for Mr. Chase young Smith found a singular looking stone that he later used to translate the Book of Mormon.]
Jan. 12, 2003
Where is it recorded that Joseph said he would go to hell to get Emma?
[Sandra's Note: Here is the statement by Brigham Young:
At another time Brigham Young said:
A good book on Emma and Joseph is Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith written by two LDS women historians.]
Jan. 13, 2003
Subject: witnessing to my mormon cousin
Finally, after many years of fluffy conversations, this week we were able to dialogue about the beliefs which we each hold to be true.She tends to argue that we are both Christians and that we really believe in the same God. I am firm in defending the truth as I uncover differences in that the teachings of the LDS 'scripture' contradict what is already inspired, and undefiled scripture--The Holy Bible. No doubt I am made to feel like the one causing 'dissention' and I can see this deception for what it is. Having said this, my question is: What is a FACT that a mormon will acknowledge and respect (or at least entertain) before thinking with their feelings? Or rather--What key point should I continue on?...God Bless your service,
[Sandra's Note: Since she claims to believe in the same God, maybe you could use Joseph Smith's famous King Follett sermon, detailing his concept of God, as a point of study. This sermon is printed on our web site but is in various LDS publications, such as the History of the Church and Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Ask her to read it and explain it to you. Does she believe this doctrine? If yes, you can ask where it is taught in the Bible. If she doesn't accept Smith's doctrine in this sermon how does she reconcile it with Smith's claim of being a prophet? Deut. 13 says a prophet can not lead you after a strange god. If Smith was wrong here how does she know when to believe him?]
Jan. 14, 2003
Subject: Books sent from USA/Utah Lighthouse Minstry
Yesterday I got the parcel you sent to me containing the books about the Mormon Church and Joseph Smith. Thank you very much for this wonderful present because these are books I can not afford here in Romania.
I wish you a very Happy New Year 2003
Jan. 14, 2003
I HAVE LOTS OF LDS FRIENDS, WHY DON'T YOU LAY OFF.
GOSSIPING (WHAT YOU ARE DOING) IS A SIN TOO, OR DON'T YOU READ THE BIBLE.
Jan. 14, 2003
Subject Length of BM "Translation" process
Thanks for your site. I'm a member who has decided to start researching the origins and doctrines of the church.
Some LDS authors (Daniel C. Peterson from FARMS, for example) claim that the Book of Mormon "was produced in a little over two months." According to my knowledge, JS got the plates from Moroni in 1827. The BofM was published in Spring 1830.
Do you have any research regarding this? I assume that the "two months" refers to the actual time he might have spent sitting at a table "translating" (peering into his hat) the plates. This does not, of course, account for the other 20+ months he could have been preparing for this. Thanks for any help you can provide!!
[Sandra's Note: You are right. Joseph Smith's mother said that several years prior to Smith receiving the plates he used to entertain the family with stories about the Indians.
Two good books on this are, Joseph Smith and the Origins of the Book of Mormon, by D. Persuitte, and The Creation of the Book of Mormon, by L. Petersen.]
Jan. 15, 2003
Subject: Ex Mormon.....
...I currently reside in southern ca and recently converted to christianity this past year. I was raised in the Mormon church until i was sixteen and i need to find a way to remove my name from church records.
My mother who is a practicing mormon is kind of a dead end. She does not support me leaving the church and therfore refuses to give me information on how to officially be taken off the records. I would greatly appreciate any information you can give me. I feel this is a necessary step to take in order to truly stand for what I now believe. Thsi is more important to me than ever since i was just baptized in a christian church, ...this past May. A friend of mine was on a missions trip with Calvary Church Santa Ana this past month. They visted with the Tanner family and told me you guys could best help me with this dilemma. I appreciate any help or direction you can give on this issue. Anxious to hear from you.
[Sandra's Note: Thanks for writing. It might be a problem to get the LDS Bishop to do this before you turn 18 but you could give it a try. Supposedly a person is mature enough to join at age 8 but not old enough to leave at 16. For more information see: How to Remove Your Name from the LDS Records.]
Jan. 15, 2003
Subject resurrected body
I recently read an article that said an LDS general authority(?) said when a person dies his resurrected body is the one he dies with, but LDS teachings, I believe, say you have a perfected body. I have searched for this again but can not find it. Any ideas?
[Sandra's Note: It is my understanding that the Mormons believe everyone will be resurrected and receive the same body as they had on earth. Only at that time it will be restored to perfect health, however, without blood. Here is a quote from one of the past presidents of the LDS Church:
Jan. 15, 2003
It is obvious that one, you have way too much time on your hands and two, have a sick obession with the LDS church. You guys need some serious help. Try looking for some un-biased mental health professionals.
Jan. 15, 2003
Subject: Thank You!
To Whom It May Concern:
I am neither a Mormon nor a Christian. I am more in line with the thoughts and beliefs of Joseph Campbell. In summary; I am a seeker: nothing more, nothing less.
I just wanted to drop a letter of thanks to you, The Tanner Family, for your strength, hope, love and devotion to "the truth" (note, lower case!).
Having read (for hours now) your work, "The Changing World of Mormonism" and having studied a great deal about "world religions" as a whole, I have no doubt you follow a difficult path, an honest path, a righteous path -- the path of your convictions.
Please, keep up your good works.
Jan. 15, 2003
Subject Mormon Baptisms
Is it possible to see a list on a web site of printed somewhere of all the people who have been baptized after their deaths? I would be interested to see if any of my family who have died have been baptized by Mormons. We are not Mormons but our daughter joined the church and is married to a Mormon.
[Sandra's Note: You can research your family through the LDS genealogical files, www.familysearch.org. Supposedly you would be able to determine if proxy baptisms or temple work had been done for them. If your daughter is active LDS she would be expected to complete a four generation family chart and at some point someone would do temple work for those who were dead.]
Jan. 17, 2003
Subject: Loving Mormons enough to tell them the truth
Dear Siblings in Christ
I just read several months worth of the letters to the editor. I have known you for probably 20 years and know that you love the Mormons and your desire is for them each to have a personal relationship with Christ.
We are to become like Him in being loving, forgiving, bold in witnessing, accurate in Biblically judging (theology and actions) with righteous judgment (John 7:24), not like Him in ability to create worlds, nor in being able to be worshipped, and get crucified or produce a child to become the Jesus for another planet.
No other Jesus is needed. He shed His pure, sinless blood to cleanse the sins of all who believe what the Bible tells us about Him (perfect, sinless God) and us (temporal, sinners until born again) and turn away from our sin and towards Him in submission and faith. Shedding our own sinner's blood would not cleanse us of sin.
We have begun a class at the church where I worship, on witnessing to Mormons, because we love them and want them to spend eternity in heaven with us and God, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which are 1 God, So says the Bible and even the Book of Mormon, which has several verses copied and others paraphrased from the K.J. version of the Bible, especially from Isaiah.
Jan. 17, 2003
Subject: from mormon to christian
I just wanted to thank you for your ministry. I was born again 3 months ago, and although the Spirit wrought this change in me before I came across most of your information, your research, documents, books, etc. have helped immensely in making the transition from mormon to Christian.
I still have many loved ones who are devout members of the mormon church, and I pray for them always. I realize it is up to God to bring about repentance for them, but maybe some of the information you share with us will help plant a seed.
My fiancee was instrumental in my conversion, he is also a former mormon. I was so sure I could prove him wrong that I told him to lay off, I would figure this thing out on my own! Well praise God that he had given me a gift of love for the truth.
The two items that were the most difficult in my adjustment were the nature of God and the nature of man, but prayerful study of the Bible has helped me to reconcile these. Anyone who denies Christ by claiming that what He did for us on the cross was not enough, that somehow this greatest of all sacrifices had to be added upon by sinful man, is blasphemous to say the least. ...
When that book that contains account of every action, every idle word spoken, every sin, (since God will not be amongst sinners), it will not take long for that first discretion to be found, and they will be cast down forever. Many names, sadly, will not be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, but only those whose sins are completely covered by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (the believer). Again, praise His name for the ultimate gift, salvation by grace through Jesus Christ! What peace and joy it has brought into my life! I hope God will be able to use me to witness the true gospel to those who love the truth, and thanks be to Him for your ministry! It is truly a ministry of love...
Jan. 17, 2003
Subject: Resignation letter
I am in the beginning stages of writing my resignation letter to the church to have my name, as well as the rest of my family's names removed from the membership records. I have read several sample letters. ...My husband converted but only attended for a very short time (2 months) and never held the priesthood. ... I, on the other hand grew up in the church and have been "inactive" for the past 13 years. I became a Christian 2+ years ago. Missionaries and visiting teachers have continued to visit and send letters to me over the years. Most recently, I stated that I was not interested in the religion anymore, so they have sent information addressed specifically to my husband instead. He has also told them he is not interested. ...
Jan. 18, 2003
HELLO. I LOVE YOUR SITE. PRAISE THE LORD. I AM STREET EVANGELIST IN NYC. WHEN I APPROACH THE MORMONS THEY DENY EVERYTHNG LIKE JESUS IS LUCIFER BROTHER AND MANY OTHER FALSE DOCTORINE THEY TEACH.
CAN YOU REFER ME TO A BOOK THAT I CAN CARRY WITH ME ON THE STREETS WHEN ONE RUN INTO THEM THAT I SHOW THEM THE VERSE IN THERE OWN MATERIAL THAT THEY DENY. EACH MORMON AS A DIFFERENT STORY FOR ME SO TO CARRY THE FACTS WITH HELP ME A LOT.
THANKS YOU VERY MUCH ONCE AGIAN FOR THE BLESS SITE YOU HAVE . GOD BLESS
[Sandra's Note: Here are two suggestions for official LDS teachings.
1. The LDS manual Gospel Principles states that we are the literal children of "heavenly parents," meaning God and his wife. (see pp. 11-15) It goes on to state that "two of our brothers offered" to be the savior of the world. Our "oldest brother" is defined as Jesus and the other son is identified as "Lucifer." (see pp.17-18) The same book teaches that God "was once a man like us;...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did." (see p.305) The manual also states that the Mormons who achieve eternal life "will become gods."
2. Another helpful LDS manual is Doctrines of the Gospel, Student Manual, Religion 231 and 232. On p. 7 it states "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man..." P.8 states "God made man in his own image and certainly he made woman in the image of his wife-partner." On p. 17 we read "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme....Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes,...so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God." P. 9 explains that "Jesus Christ is literally the son of God" and "that Child to be born of Mary was begotten of Elohim, the Eternal Father, not in violation of natural law but in accordance with a higher manifestation thereof, and the offspring from that association of supreme sanctity, celestial Sireship, and pure though mortal maternity, was of right to be called the 'Son of the Highest.' Jesus is "the only begotten in the flesh; that He is the Son of God just as much as you and I are the sons of our fathers." P.10 explains that "by obedience and devotion to the truth he [Jesus] attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God,..." Even God the father is described as achieving his godhood. "Through a continual course of progression, our heavenly Father has received exaltation and glory, and he points us out the same path;..." (p.92)]
Jan. 19, 2003
I was a convert to the LDS faith 12 years ago. And never delved into its past. By chance I was watching a court tv special "The System", and it was about Mark Hoffman. So I wanted to know more and went on the internet and found you. I am sickened by the information. Startled that we would be so manipulated. My wife and son were just baptized last April. Now our whole family is in a quandry about where to go from here. We are lost recently Ex-mormons. Can you help?
[Sandra's Note: Thanks for writing. Be assured that God will guide you through this difficult time. Jesus promised—
Matt 11:28-30Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Jesus is the answer, not the Mormon Church. I would suggest buying a new Bible, one that is in modern English. Then start reading the New Testament. You will be amazed how much easier it will be to understand and you will see that it doesn't teach Mormonism. See if your local Christian book store can suggest a good Bible study group.
We certainly have dozens of books and information to help you. Two basic books are The Ins and Outs of Mormonism and God's Word, Final, Infallible and Forever. The first one tells of a young minister who joined Mormonism, left years later, and went back to being a pastor. The other one has a good section on Christianity and then one on Mormonism.
God Bless—you are in my prayers.]
Jan. 19, 2003
Your site is excellent. Your desire for honesty is impressive. Keep up the important work. ...Thank you for your contribution to my life. Your work has been of great worth.
Jan. 20, 2003
Thanks so much for your efforts. Your work played a part in my exodus from the slavery of Smith-Hinckleyism! G-d ultimately delivered me as he spoke directly to my soul and mind as I read the truth about him for the first time in 2000 in an NIV New Testament and accepted him.. ...
With the love of g-d,
Jan. 20, 2003
Dear Sandra & Jerald:
Thank you for your work on presenting authentic Mormon history. I left the Church 18 years ago. ...I really appreciate all you are doing. ...
Jan. 20, 2003
it seems to me that all you are realy trying to do is discredit a church you do not even follow when you should be spreading the messages of love and joy peace that jesus taught
Jan. 20, 2003
Every time I even go to your site I get teary with joy and sadness.....joy at the fact that the LORD brought me out of the LDS church and sad that there are still so many lost souls grasping to their lies.
I just wanted to tell you again how much I appreciate your ministry. I know you get tons of "thank-you" emails as well as negative emails, but I just wanted to send another thank you. Your mission to LDS people is Wonderful!!! Thanks!!
Jan. 20, 2003
Dear Lighthouse Ministry,
We have enclosed a small donation and also our prayers! My husband and I have been reading Ron Rhodes book, Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Mormons and we have been doing just that!
We want you to know how valuable we find your ministry and how much we covet your prayers as we begin to witness as well! ...
Jan. 21, 2003
Subject: mormon relationship: help?
Good morning: im sure you have had this question many times. i regret that you must hear it again but i believe it is important....I am a born again christian for about 15 years...I have been researching mormanism for a while and my conclusion is that it is a fraud.
My problem is that i have met a woman. We are absolutely perfect for each other or so thats the way it seems. Unfortunately she is mormon. she converted herself like a nine months ago and is really trying to find God. We both are adimantley convinced that our meeting was of no couincidence but meant to happen.
However, i do not believe in mormanism, its foundings or in anything that it teaches, she does and has stated that we can not be together if i dont convert. I will not. and it seems that the only answer is to let it go and conclude that thats what she wants and let her make her decision.
However, I am unwilling to just let it go and let her just walk away. Im sure you have expirienced this situation before among other christians. what do you advise? is there anything i can really do? should i just let her go and move on? what is your experience in this situation? how can i show her its not truth?
I understand i must make my own decision and you can not tell me how i should live my life. I just looking for some advice on how to pursue this.
I would appreciate any advice, help, and prayers you might be able to offer.
thank you for your time and effort in this matter
[Sandra's Note: You are right, we have seen this same situation time after time. One possibility would be to print out Smith's King Follett sermon on the nature of God and ask her to go through it with you and explain to you what Smith is saying. Ask her if this is what she truly believes about God. Then you have a chance to compare it with the Bible. Many converts have never read his sermon and don't know his full teaching on God progressing to be god. This sermon is also in the History of the Church, vol.6, p.302, or Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.342. These books should be in any LDS ward library and are sold at the official Deseret Book store.
If she won't examine both sides, your relationship is doomed. That doesn't mean she might not see the truth at a later time, but it might be after you are out of her life. I can tell you from countless interviews, mixed marriages between Mormons and other faiths rarely work. It may be that you are just the first step to get her to see the light. You are certainly in our prayers.]
Jan. 21, 2003
Subject: Developmentally disabled children
Sandra and Jerald,
I am currently working with a family that is leaving the LDS church and I was asked a question I can not find any answer to. The family has a 13 year old daughter that is developmentally disabled. They said that their LDS family has never pursued her being baptized like they have their son.
Does the LDS church have a position regarding the salvation of a developmentally disabled individual? I was raised LDS and left the church a couple years ago but I don't remember anything specific. Any insight you can provide will help tremendously.
[Sandra's Note: LDS literature indicates that the mentally disabled will automatically inherit the Celestial Kingdom. This is addressed in the official LDS handbook, which basically states that those with mental disabilities that are unable to knowingly repent aren't seen as accountable and therefore don't require baptism. (D&C 137:10; Moroni 8:9-12).
I have a cousin who is mentally handicapped and in the 1960's the bishop refused to baptize him, even though he was mature enough to understand the basic concept. I have been told that today a bishop would probably baptize him.]
Jan. 21, 2003
Subject: Thank you
I would just like to thank you so much for being such a loud voice in Christianity today. I have found that too many Christians today are way too reclusive and idle when it comes to issues facing us these days.
...Jesus would refuse to allow a false religion to continue to tell blatant lies and instill confusion amongst his people. He would never stand idle while liberalist walk all over his children. Though In Christianity this seems to be the case. It might just a prelude to what may come but with Christians fighting Christians and so forth our future looks bleak. ...I applaud you for having no fear in speaking the truth. I always find great resources when I am on your site and your books are mind blowing.
I would imagine you would get a lot of unhappy people who write you to tell you this or that but I am here to tell you that you are doing a wonderful job. I pray that your ministry will continue to thrive and be prosperous until there will be no more need to fight the battle because the war has come to an end.
Until then may God bless.
Jan. 21, 2003
I'm a Mormon. My wife just converted and I just finished reading the b.o.m. ,d.c. , p.o.g.p. . I have started to have real questions. The missionaries seem to have an answer for everything.
I went to my local book store and bought Out of Mormonism, Mormons Answered, and Mormonism 101. What book do you recommend next. I am still really confused. We started to have home teachers and I feel bad that I don't agree with what they are saying. They all make you feel like you will never be worthy enough for God and his kingdom.
[Sandra's Note: I think you would benefit from reading An Insider's View of Mormon Origins. It is written by a retired LDS Institute of Religion director. He raises many major historical problems for Joseph Smith's claims. If the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham are not historical, if there are major problems with the claims of priesthood restoration and the First Vision, why should we place any confidence in Joseph Smith? The Bible was here before Smith, it must become our guide to authentic Christianity.]
Jan. 21, 2003
Subject Presence of God?
A conversation (topic was GOD is always with us) between my daughter-in-laws in which the following statement was made "God is not here now!" This quote was made by the daughter-in-law who belongs to the LDS church. Can you please explain just what the LDS teachings are on this point.
I have been studying the teachings of the LDS in order to be able to some how plant a seed of truth.
Thank you, "A worried Grandmother"
[Sandra's Note: Since LDS believe God has a physical body it would follow that he cannot be all places at once, thus the conclusion he may not be 'here now.' On the other hand, the Bible presents God as being everywhere present (see Isa. 66:1; Jer. 23:23-24). Look at our section under Online Resources: LDS Theology.]
Jan. 22, 2003
Subject: virgin birth
I encountered missionaries who came to my house and when I started to tell them what their church believes, such as the virgin birth when "heavenly father" came down and had sex with Mary that produced Jesus, they denied it and said that it was a mystery., They did say they would find answers and get back to me but they never did. Do most Mormons not really know what they church teaches?
Christ the King Church
[Sandra's Note: Most Mormons, including their missionaries, probably have not looked into the church's teaching on this.
But they will usually say that Jesus is the 'literal son of the father.' So what do they mean by 'literal'? Since they believe God has a physical body (some would say a resurrected body) and he is the 'literal' father of Jesus, obviously they are talking about physical contact. Pres. Benson spoke of Jesus being 'sired' by God and that this was to be understood 'in the most literal sense.' (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p.7)
We have a set of photos from LDS sources on this, see our booklist: Godhead and Virgin Birth photos.]
Jan. 23, 2003
...my neighbors are temple Mormons. They are from Salt Lake and were married in the Temple. We have started some conversations with them and they have tried to convert us. She wrote me a letter explaining how mormonism is right and I am preparing to write her back. I am prepared to share the gospel with her, But I want to do it in the most loving way possible. Please pray for me and my husband. I came upon your website and I would like to receive Salt Lake City Messenger....
Jan. 23, 2003
I just wanted to say that I appreciated your website information. I am not of the Mormon religion, but from a Nazarene Church background. I really have scarce knowledge on the LDS Church.
I have a friend that grew up in the Mormon church with his family, but after his parents were divorced they never went back again which he said had to do with some reason that they (the church) look down upon it or something of that nature. He hasn't been going to church consistently in I would say about 4-5 years. Well, just recently he had something devastating happen in his life and he feels that he walked away from the church and he feels that he should get involved again.
I have talked about him with this, giving my opinion but not putting what he believes down. I am trying to find more information concerning the religion-background, beliefs, morals, etc. I think since he was so young when he attended that he truly is unaware of all the facts. I thank you for reading my story. ... Thanks!
Jan. 23, 2003
Subject: How Sad!
How sad it is that the Tanners have spent their lives tearing down the Mormon Church! If they didn't want to be Mormons, that is their business. But why didn't they go on to build something else up? It's not good or healthy to continually tear something down.....get over it and go on to something else!
I am proud and happy to say I am a Mormon. Just because the Tanners perception of the Mormon Church is that the Church is not true, that doesn't and will never make it so. I actually feel sorry for them! When I think of all the people they may have influenced for bad in their lives, I quiver to think what they will say when they meet their maker. I would hate to be in their place!! What losers. Tell them to get lives and quit ruining others lives, as well as their eternity to come! Tell them to read the book "The Fate of the Persecutors of the Prophet Joseph Smith," and to start quoting that book....if they dare!
[Sandra's Note: And I challenge you to read a critical review of the book. LDS scholars are skeptical of its claims. See BYU Prof. Richard C. Poulsen, 'Fate and the Persecutors of Joseph Smith: Transmutations of An American Myth' in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Vol. 11, No. 4 Winter 1978.]
Jan. 23, 2003
Subject: I discovered their lies 9 days after my baptism.
I am a single (no kids) Chinese woman, a chronic asthmatic, and I am now a full-time (reentry) student (going into Nursing). My birthday is April 6th. (I learned two months ago that the Mormon Church was founded on April 6, 1830.) There is no Mormon in my family, so I knew nothing about the LDS Church.
Early last November I met a very decent young man who said "We are all one, so we ought to be nice to each other." At his invitation, I started visiting the Davis, California LDS Church on the 17th of last November. I was baptized on Dec.21. I started coughing badly and having trouble breathing from time to time since early last December. I asked the missionaries to postpone the baptism, but was told it could not be done. One of the missionaries assured me that my health would improve after baptism.
I went to the doctors' office twice after Christmas and was given both antibiotics and Prednisone (the strongest asthma medication). I coughed badly on Dec.29, but I still bundled myself up and went to church at nine. On that last Sunday of 2002, a lady from the Mormon Adoption Services talked about how they persuade unwed (teenage) mothers to give their babies to Mormon families for adoption. Two male members tried to get me commit my time in the following weeks and months for two different sets of lessons for new members.
I stayed until 2:20 p.m. so that the relief society president could discuss Doctrine & Covenants and Pearl of Great Price as well as show me how to use the cross references throughout the 4-in-1 volume (which was given to me on my baptism day). I was told to study the scriptures. Then the lady put the shopping bag she was carrying in front of me, and said! , "We know that you don't have money, so we bought this dress for you. We don't want you to feel embarrassed when some sisters won't invite you to their homes because you always wear pants and jeans." I told her "No, thanks" and assured her that I would not be embarrassed if people did not like my clothing. "If there is a dress code, I should be told so since Day One and not until after my baptism and confirmation. I wear clean, comfortable clothes (no high heels), and I never dress provocatively. I wear dresses and skirts in summer, but I wear warm clothes and pants for winter." She looked like as if she was going to cry, but she did not (and there were no tears either). She said that there was no dress code, and she felt that she failed to accomplish her "mission". I was quite amazed that, without knowing my size and what I like to wear, they could buy a dress and expect me to accept it and be thankful. Later that evening, I called and informed her that I would wear a skirt during the three hours when I was in church. I did not want to make this an issue.
As I mentioned earlier, I was not given a copy of the "Doctrine and Covenants" until after my baptism on 12-21. I began to realize that something was not right with the church when I read the Section 132 "revelations" of D&C on Dec.30. (There is no way God would ever command Joseph Smith to have many wives and allow him to have sex with any girls and women he wanted.)
Had the Mormon Church truly abolished polygamy, the Sect.132 doctrine would have been removed from its canonized scriptures long time ago. Since then I have been researching the documented Mormon history through books, articles, and the Internet. The Mormon dirty laundry on polygamy alone was appalling, frightening, and disgusting enough! I have also discovered what I was told by by missionaries regard to polygamy, etc. (it was probably the official lines) was a blatant lie and misrepresentation.
The beautifully-packaged "Six Lessons" were half-truth and misrepresentation too. Instead of being the "restored church of Christ", Mormonism is non-Christian and it is nothing but a man-made institution. The Mormon empire is a multi-national corporation, and it is wealthy, powerful, and fast-growing. (There are Mormon temples in both Taipei and Hong Kong. I would be very scared if the Mormon Church could enroll just a small percentage of the 1.1 billion Chinese people. I would like to see your wonderful web site be translated into Chinese and many other languages, so that people in other part of the world would not be fooled and mislead by Mormonism.)
I started on Predisone on Jan.3, and never went back to that church. I decided not to contact anybody at the church because I was sick and I was also sick about their lies. I mailed my resignation letter on Jan.11 (three weeks after my baptism). According to the return receipt, the bishop received it on 1-13. Legally starting 1-13, I am no longer a member of the Mormon Church.
I was such a fool that I let them rush me into baptism. I should have started my research at least one month earlier. Yet I was fortunate that I discovered their lies before investing more time and energy to that organization.
Jan. 23, 2003
Subject: Raising from the dead
I know you are busy, but I wondered if I might trouble you for something. I remember learning as a Mormon that faithful LDS husbands would be the ones to call their wives up from the graves in the resurrection. When I went through the temple, I was sure they told me that was the reason I was learning my wife's temple name.
Now I am looking for some evidence of that teaching, but can't seem to locate any quotations or references that specifically state this teaching. I have found some references in anti-mormon books where the author claims they were under the same impression. I wondered if you know of any specific speeches, discourses, manuals or transcriptions from the Mormon Church where they teach this doctrine?
Thank you very much for whatever help you can give me in this area.
In His Name,
Jan. 24, 2003
Subject: my rantings after reading your letters site
Hi Tanners, Just want you and all the misguided Mormons that visit your site to know that "I OWE THE TANNERS BIG TIME" Thanks to your efforts I, at last have sent the Bishop here in Dawson Creek, B.C. my exit letter. Can't wait to know my name is off the records of the most Stupid Religion ever to be invented.
With out your tireless efforts I would still be sleeping in Priesthood class and listening in Sacrament meeting to the rantings of "I know the church is true or I know Joseph Smith was a profit and so and so. Good Heavens, when I think of the thousands of hours and dollars I have wasted over the years, It brings me to tears.
To all of you Mormons visiting this web site and writing nasty letters, I say to you: If you love the church so much and follow it's teachings, then why are you here at this site? What a load of crap that you just happened to come across the site by accident. And if that was true, then you would have left in a hurry. When I read your rantings it helps me to see that there are not many who can come up with an intelligent thought anymore. And to think of it, It's no wonder since "All the thinking has already been done by the leaders for you!
[You] wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the (you know what). You are fearful that if you read something critical of the church, you might be influenced in some way. Well that is sure true! And there is the problem, How can you ever know the truth with out investigating and checking everything first? OH! I forgot, you already know the truth by the "Warm Fuzzy Feeling" you have inside. That Warm Fuzzy Feeling is probably from sneaking a coffee or soft drink or better yet, maybe it's the Devil giving it to you just to deceive you!!
Well my Mormon friends, you just keep paying your tithing and attending all your required meetings, Go to the temple and try and figure out why major changes have been made several times since Joseph Smith. Sit there and spend the entire time just trying to remember if the garment [temple robe] is on the right or left shoulder and hope you don't forget your new special name at the veil. And after it's all over you say "The Veil was very thin today, I felt heaven was near" What a load of horse poop.
I cannot begin to explain how liberated and free I feel just writing these words. You cannot imagine how wonderful it is to not feel "GUILT" any longer. As one door closed another opens, and I am so grateful to be able to explore the other side of that new door.
Sandra, feel free to post this letter on your site. Also you can post my E-Mail address firstname.lastname@example.org as I am hoping there are others out there who want to feel the same as I . Mormon hate mail is encouraged as it helps to remind me why I left the church in the first place.
Keep up the great work, you are making a difference.
Jan. 26, 2003
Subject: Comment on Article
I was very impressed with your article, The Book of Mormon: Inspired Scripture or a Work of Fiction?, from issue 86 of the Messenger (yes, I did read it in its entirety). You folks have obviously been at this a long time and have put forth a great deal of effort in your endeavor to discern the truth.
It is this same type of passionate research that brought me to Christ when I discovered the truth about Him. As a result, I realized that God was calling me into full-time ministry and I am soon beginning the Ministerial Study Program of the Christian & Missionary Alliance. I hope, one day, to be able to help (by the power of the Holy Spirit) convince others of the truth of Jesus Christ with the same type of clarity and passion that you folks use to shed light on Mormonism.
My youngest nephew is involved with the Mormons and has been a missionary for them in Brazil, coming back a couple of years ago to marry a girl whose family has been devout Mormons for many years, maybe even generations. ...
May God continue to bless your ministry and raise up others to whom you can pass the mantle. ...It seems so trite to say, "Keep up the good work," but that is what I encourage you folks to do. God bless you.
Jan. 26, 2003
Subject: thanks !
Last friday I received your donanation and We got very happy ! pray for us, because next week We will tray to press some leaflets about mormonism and other cults (here in Brazil we have all kinds of cults that you imagine).
We will be praying for you! thanks, thanks, thanks!!! God goes on blessing this ministry!
Your servant in God's work,
Jan. 27, 2003
My question is in regards to the two men who were killed by Joseph Smith, according to John Taylor's written account of the final moments of Joseph Smith's life.
Mr. Taylor says that Joseph Smith fired his six shooter through the opening of the door and later was informed that two men died. Who are these two men? What are their names? Is their any historical documents or proof that state Joseph Smith's gun killed two men? Or even that they put up a fight to save their lives and as a result two men died in the gun battle?
[Sandra's Note: The three men evidently shot by Smith were Wills, Voras, and Gallaher. LDS Apostle John Talyor stated he was informed two of them later died from their wounds (History of the Church, vol.7, p.103). Regardless of whether the men died from those wounds, it was obviously Smith's intent to kill them. Dallin Oaks, now an LDS apostle, discussed the gun fight in Carthage Conspiracy:
On pp. 52-53, we read:
D. Michael Quinn, in a footnote for The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, discusses the shootout at the jail:
For more information, see our page: Joseph Smith's Death.]
Jan. 27, 2003
Greetings in Jesus wonderful name! I thoroughly enjoy and thank God for your website!
My question is regarding the Lord's Supper: Do Mormons practice this? As Christians we celebrate the Lord's Supper signifying his finished work on the cross, shedding His sinless blood for our sin.
I had a Mormon neighbor tell me that they believe that Jesus suffered more in Gethsemene than He did on the cross. But Jesus didn't shed His blood in Gethsemene. He did that on the cross. And the apostle Paul frequently mentioned the cross in his letters; he knew the importance.
I have never heard a Mormon mention practicing the Lord's Supper, so I am curious.
Thank you and God bless you!
[Sandra's Note: The Mormons have 'Sacrament Meeting' every week, where they sing a few songs, partake of the sacrament of bread and water, and hear a devotional talk by someone in the ward or stake, sing another song, then close in prayer. But they do not use the term 'Lord's supper.' The prayers said over the bread and water are taken from the Book of Mormon, Moroni, chapters 4 and 5 and repeated in Doctrine and Covenants 20:75-79—
These same prayers are said verbatim each week over the bread and water. In fact, in a Sacrament meeting I attended as a teenager one young man was required to repeat the sacrament prayer six times in order to say it word perfect.
Another cultural item of Mormon life is that they all fold their arms when they pray, although there is no scripture mandating it. Also, when the sacrament is passed they are instructed to take the bread and water with the right hand.
As a young person, during the passing of sacrament, I was instructed to think about Christ's great suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane. I don't remember hearing much about the cross.]
Jan 28, 2003
Subject: Praying for You!
Thank you very much for your ministry here in the Salt Lake Valley. God bless you for all your efforts and the continuing fight in the battle.
I know it may seem tough and impossible at times, but be encouraged! Your efforts are not going unnoticed. I love you website and your willingness to stand firm in the Gospel.
Love God...Love People,
Jan. 28, 2003
Subject: Help Please!
When working with Mormons I keep hearing "joint heirs with Christ" as to why they become Gods on their planets. What do I say?
[Sandra's Note: This is a figure of speech, not referring to actually being the same species as God, but spiritually being adopted into his family.
Rom 8:14-17For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Gal 4:4-7—But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
For example, my dog has been 'adopted' into our family and has the same privileges as a child. But he is not the same species as us and his position in the family is fully by GRACE. Just so we are God's creation, not his biological children, we have been adopted in a spiritual sense, not sons by a literal means of progeny.]
Jan. 28, 2003
Subject: Salt Lake City Messenger
Dear Brother & Sister In Christ,
Keep up the good work you are such a blessing. I have just finished two nights of ministry in a Northern Ireland church on the LDS. This was using a computer and data projector which helped the congregation get a better grasp of the subject. This is one of two series I conduct under the title "Knock Knock Who's There". The other being on the work of The Jehovah's Witnesses...
Yours, Because Of Him,
Jan. 29, 2003
Hi. Just a suggestion. I was reading your FAQ's about Mormonism and noticed that you mention the Deseret News published a statistic that the LDS church has a membership of 10 million or so. You might want to mention somewhere on this web page that many of these 10 million do not consider themselves Mormon, such as myself. I was raised Mormon, but grew to despise that church. When people ask me is I am Mormon, my response is a definite "NO." However, the LDS Church has me on record as a member still (see what I'm saying?).
Jan. 30, 2003
Subject: About mormon baptism
I know you're very busy, and I'll try to make this brief. ...I work for the fire dept. in ......CA and, as you may or may not know, we are having a mormon temple built here. It's probably half done now, with the main structure finished, except for the marble work and huge steeple.
Now, one of the guys I work with, along with myself, are evangelical Christians and were more than curious to have a look around. So we hopped into the rig and were off to the site , where they were more than accomadating.
As we looked around, one room caught our attention. The baptism pit (for lack of a better definition). As may be customary (I wouldn't know) there was a rather fair sized circular "step down" baptismal pool, and beyond that, encompasing probably 75% of the perimeter of the pool, was a large pit. This caught our curiosity.
So we talked to one young man, who happened to be wearing the traditional undergarments, and he explained the pit was for 12 oxen. I guess he could see by our faces that we thought he was pulling our chain, so he insisted that's really what it's for. He went on to say that he has been involved in several ceremonies himself, and that he was quite serious.
So the obvious question is this : Was he serious ? If so, what do the oxen represent ?
[Sandra's Note: The idea for a large basin on the backs of twelve oxen came from the description of Solomon's temple in the Old Testament, I Kings 7:25. However, this basin was used by the priests for cleansing while officiating in the sacrifices of animals. It was never used for baptism, let alone baptism for the dead.
The baptismal fonts in the LDS temples are only used for proxy baptisms of the dead. Baptisms of the living are preformed in the local Stake Center and would resemble other church's fonts.
In some of the newer, smaller LDS temples they are only using six oxen in a half circle, against a wall of mirrors. In 1982 Sunstone reported:
The LDS church unveiled plans for the smaller, economy size one story temples recently. Ten of the already announced new temples will use the new design. One interesting difference is that the baptismal font will rest on 6 oxen rather than 12, and a mirror will be used to create the other 6. (Sunstone 74/17, July 1982)]
Jan. 31, 2003
Subject: by the fruit ye shall know them.
Wow, I am not a member of the mormon church but by the fruit ye shall know them... It really seems that you have put in a lot of effert to try to disprove their prophet but my question is what is your motive? Why do you hate? What do you have to prove by writing against another religion? What makes you right and another wrong? How am I supposed to know that you are telling the truth and not trying to destroy another person's faith? I feel that anybody who tries to destroy faith is producing rotten fruit. And by your fruit I shall know you. I believe that by tearing down another's faith you are against God whether it is call Jehovah by the Jews or Elohim or Allah or even Budda... Destroying another person's faith in God is evil. And by that measure of judgement... You must be evil or rotten. Does it matter to you what I say? I don't think so. I think you will go about doing the Devil's work anyway destroying the faith of others.
Enjoy your time on this Earth because you might be out of luck in the next life